The Giants did not have a problem with driving in RISP tonight because, well, because they didn't have any runners in scoring position! Melky Cabrera got the game off to a hopeful start with a solo HR in the top of the first inning, but the Giants hitters then went ice cold against a soft tossing rookie lefthander named Patrick Corbin. The only subsequent baserunner to reach 2B was Buster Posey on an error by RF Justin Upton. Meanwhile, Madison Bumgarner did not have his usual impeccable command of his pitches and it eventually cost him. Key Lines:
Melky Cabrera- 2 for 4, HR(2). BA=.321. Melky continues to be the Giants best hitter and player.
Madison Bumgarner- 6 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 5 K's. ERA= 2.80. I followed the game on Gameday. Bumgarner was already getting his pitches up even though he sailed through the first two innings, but his command deteriorated noticeably and immediately after Crawford's error to start the bottom of the third inning. He seemed to be back on track towards the end of the fourth inning, but lost it again in the 5'th when Paul Goldschmidt, who is turning into a real Giants nemesis, took him deep for a 2 run HR.
Patrick Corbin(D'Backs)- 7 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 0 BB, 4 BB. ERA= 4.50. The fact that Corbin's ERA ended up at 4.50 after shutting down the Giants shows how much the Giants offense is struggling, or maybe I should say it's not struggling?
The Loss dropped the Giants 6 games behind the NL West leading Dodgers who beat the Rockies 7-3. The Giants held onto second place over the D'Backs who stayed 6.5 games behind the Dodgers. The Rockies dropped to 7.5 games behind. The Pathetic Padres lost to the Phillies 7-3 to drop 10.5 games behind in last place.
Matt Cain takes the hill tomorrow against another Giants nemesis, Trevor Cahill.
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Sorry for the format. I'm using my iPad tonight and it sometimes does some strange things. I'll try to fix it tomorrow evening.
ReplyDeletesomething is mentally wrong with craw...maybe this whole hubby soon to be daddy thing is getting to him...he has never been this bad defensively
ReplyDeletesomething is wrong with the entire club...they look lost out there....
im sorry, but this is bochy's big test...giants are gonna continue building from within, and he has to prove that he can work with kids....fact
but i have a feeling that sabey sabes will just deal with it by trading someone
Bacci - spot on comment about Bochy. The Giants are a different team than 2010/2011. No waiting out vets to produce dingerz. It's youth now, in all its inconsistent and athletic beauty. The Giants are building from within. The team needs to find its identity.
DeleteCan Bochy find his identity as a manager with this team?
DrB,I too followed the lilliputians on classic game day.At the rate they're going,Josh Hamilton will have as many jacks as the L's. Yu Darvish was spanked for several runs in his 1st start v/s/ Seattle, but he wasn't the pitcher of record when Ranger bats woke up.The L's have real trouble making 3 runs,let alone 6 or 7 that would overcome one of their starters bad outings.Most of the young L's are out of their depth.I foresee a drop in attendance at AT&T once they trail the Dodgers by 10 and D'Backs by 5. Nice to see Huff get a single, as usual with bases empty. That may well have been his last hit in the majors.Ian, Victoria.
ReplyDeleteI really don’t expect anything from the Giants this season
ReplyDeleteexcept firing Sabean and Bochy.
They have to leave. Plus Bam Bam.
Bacci,
ReplyDeleteI believe Crawford has had the fumble fingers in the minors at times. Kid has great range and athleticism, but sometimes, OK, often, he hobbles the simple play.
For those of you calling, once again, for Bochy to be fired, do you really think a new manager would make a difference with this team? It is what it is, a very young team. Hey, a lot of you naysayers have been screaming that the the Giants won't play young players. Now you have what you wanted, one of the younger rosters in baseball, and you are unhappy when they play exactly like you would expect a young team to play.
Ditto Sabes. He builds a team of homegrown players, including one of the best homegrown young cores in the game with more in the pipeline and now you want to fire him because this homegrown team you all wanted is experiencing some growing pains?
Hear here, let's take the long view. Right now this is a 500 team with no spark. Treading water waiting for Pablo. Knee jerk firing squads might look a little hasty in a couple of months.
DeleteConstructive criticism time: Bochy might need to settle down his constant almost manic lineup swaps. I think it effects young players a lot more than vets. At this point, even though it hurts the lineup even further, Buster needs a day off instead of being sent to first base.
What Bochy is doing right: sticking with Crawford. You almost have no choice, but saying "he's the shortstop" is the right move. They've made the commitment by not getting a vet placeholder, stick with it. Pretty ugly right now, but that's what you get with young players.
Apparently Bochy has paid lip service to possibly playing Belt 2nd. Tall order, and I think he considers it a high honor that hasn't been earned. In these desperate hours I think he has to take a shot at it, and stick with it for at least 2 series worth of games. I'd also think seriously about putting Blanco in the same time. You'd get a good bet at stretching out the opposing pitcher in the first inning that way, which might set the tone a bit better for the rest of the lineup. I have to admit, it is pretty discouraging when the lineup gets buzzsawed on 8 pitches to start the game.
The overall OPS+ isn't so bad, the middle infield obviously drags the lineup down a bunch. Sando is a huge hole. There are only 3 bats with more than 1K MLB PAs: Huff, Pagan, and Melky. They may not be up to the task, but they are the best hope until Sandoval gets back and/or Sabean gets impatient and makes a sideways trade. Asking the young players to do more isn't working right now.
Well I am glad that instead of watching the game last night I decided to go to the ballpark and watch Roger Waters build the wall. I did check my phone on occasion and was not surprised at all to see the nose dive continue. In the past I have supported Boch and ripped Sabes but I have to say that it may just be time to clean house. Do I think another manager would be able to do more with this team? YES!! Look what Kirk Gibson has done for a very young DBacks team, he has brought new energy and a more aggressive style of ball which his young players are responding to. Boch is an old fart and the only energy he brings is when he waddles out on the field to argue with the umpires.
DeleteA big part of this teams problem which we have discussed many many times is the inconsistent lineups and no back up plans. Right now I could put a lineup together with these same players that within 15-20 games would eventually be productive but Boch continues to mix and match which doesn't allow anyone to settle in. Sabes is the other half of the equation, he put this team together and after winning a world series we deserve more then this. Nobody should be surprised that this team is struggling, we got to see 3/4 of a season of the exact same offensive struggles last year yet we didn't really add anyone, just replaced a few pieces (Melky for Beltran and Pagan for Torres).
This is not a playoff team and that isn't acceptable. We had a window with our "great" pitching and nothing has been done to take advantage of it. The farm system is an improvement over 10 years ago but don't forget who was responsible for putting together the farm system then, the same guy who is putting it together now so how much credit should we actually give Sabes for cleaning up his own mess? I can't be happy looking to the future as our future should have been here and now.
A big test I believe will be whether the Phillies make major changes after their horrible start. I don't see them being content with how their season is going and we shouldn't be content with ours either. If a team like the Phillies decides to fire their manager or trade off some of their core pieces like Cole Hamels then I think the Giants need to follow suit.
Last year was excruciatingly painful and only a month into this year it is more of the same. Someone or multiple people need to be held accountable and no more excuses. I come to this website because I love all of the educated and positive takes from you Dr. B and the rest of the posters but putting a positive spin on this is like putting lipstick on a dead pig. I don't want to hear about how hard and risky it is to sign free agent bats, the best hitter I have ever seen play on this team was a FA when he signed with us! The season may be young still but the only thing I am looking forward to at this point is change whether it be in management and/or players.
I don't know why I waste my breath and writing, but clearly you don't get it, but hopefully someone who reads Pato's statements will.
DeleteThe farm system is not a perfect reflection of how good a GM is in evaluating talent in the draft. Nobody is great at it, because if they were, their team would just be this juggernaut with nowhere but up to go. Pato noted that the farm system was bad 10 years ago and blamed Sabean.
In a way, you can blame Sabean for that one: winning teams get lousy draft picks in the first round, resulting in an exponential reduction in the probability of finding a good player via the draft. Farm systems stagnate when a team is winning, especially when you pull off a long string as Sabean did to start his GM career (most GMs come into a losing situation that takes years to fix). It is just that when you are losing you have maybe a 20-ish percent chance of finding a good ballplayer with your first round pick, 40-ish percent if you are one of the worse teams in the majors. Winning teams' draft picks have maybe a 10-ish percent chance of finding a good ballplayer. When, on average, you find a good player via the draft every 10 years, your farm system will go bad.
So the focus, really, should be on those GM's who, despite the poor odds in the draft, are able to construct a strong team out of the draft. For, as we can see from teams like the Pirates and Royals, just losing and getting good draft picks does not mean that your team will win. And the Giants have been winning with their homegrown talent.
Are they dominant and "capitalizing on our window"? Just asking that question shows ignorance of the rebuilding process and how poor the odds are of finding good players via the draft. It takes up to 4-6 years for most players to figure things out and contribute at the major league level. Cain, Lincecum, Posey, and Bumgarner did it int two years of professional ball. They were ahead of the curve. Once the pitching is set, it will take a number of years to switch to focus on hitters and get that rolling. First there was Sandoval, then Posey, hopefully Belt and then Brown and Panik. That's about as good an assembly line that a baseball team can do, short of losing badly all the time for 6-10 years. And the Giants did it while winning.
Furthermore, we capitalized on our window: we won the World Series championship in 2010. Contrary to fan opinion, it is not that easy to win a championship.
DeleteNor was it a fluke, which is another common Giants fan opinion. These people show either a lack of understanding of how baseball works or don't realize how this statement makes following sports a fool's errand. If the 2010 championship was a fluke, then, well, almost every championship since the World Series started were flukes.
People have pointed out the various things that were fluky with the Giants championship, I don't need to list them here. What I could list is, if you define those things as the only reason why the Giants won, then yes, it was fluky, and so was all the other World Series championships. Gibson's homer of Eck was pretty fluky, really, couldn't write a better story. How about Gene Tenace becoming Babe Ruth in the playoffs? Dave Roberts stealing all those bases when the other team knows what he's in there for? The Reds championship in 1990 (-ish) was due to the fact that not only was their team healthy, they got career performances from a number of players that they didn't repeat afterward. Fluky!
Given that, why do these people watch baseball at all? Every championship is fluky by their definition!
Ah, but that's the rub, they defined it as fluky because they don't believe that Sabean could possibly put together a championship, so they point out all the fluky elements.
Baseball can be fluky. The baseball gods sometimes crank up the BABIP or HR/FB for a player and suddenly Brian Anderson hits 50 homers in a season. Should we therefore define any team benefiting from such a performance a "fluky" team that won flukily?
DeleteAgain, sure, if you want to define any championship as a fluke, and if so, why bother?
The way I see it, in baseball, there is a lot of fluky things happening. That happens when you have humans doing human things, in my view of it. Sure-handed fielders suddenly looks like one of us fielding. Homerun hitters suddenly hitting like one of us hitting. It happens.
What one needs to look at is what one can control: the construction of the team. Given that a team cannot be good at everything - and that is one of the main tenets of a major business theory, that a business should focus on core competencies because of scarce resources, can we agree on that? - what we can look at is whether a team seems to have a strategy for winning.
The Giants clearly focuses on pitching. I would also argue for fielding as well, despite this year's poor example so far, for if you go back to the beginning of the Sabean era, he's always talked about strong defense as a pillar of his strategy. And if you go by the Fielding Bible's defensive stats, the Giants have been among the leaders in runs saved by their fielding for the past three years.
The most current research concurs with that strategy, with Baseball Prospectus and The Hardball Time attacking it from two different perspectives and both finding two common characteristics of successful playoff teams: that they have good pitching and fielding (i.e. good defense), and that no matter how good the offense is, it has no factor in the success or failure of playoff teams.
So I don't find the 2010 Championship to be a fluke. The team was designed properly per the current sabermetric research says it should be, not that they necessarily followed that research, but that is what they clearly did. Baseball is not like basketball or football, where dynasties are common or easy once you find the generational player. It truly takes a team to win, and yes, a bit of luck and flukiness.
DeleteBut when given that opportunity to win it, they did. Cliff Lee could have shut us down in that first start, but he didn't. Things would have been greatly different had he won instead of Lincecum. Of course, Renteria's homer was fluky. But whose homer isn't a large part of fluke, including all of Bonds? They are all typically a pitcher's mistake, a fluke in a game of 150 pitches, perhaps the only fluke if you recall Kershaw's loss on Pill's fluky homer.
Yet, we all know it is not a fluke. No pitcher can go through a whole game and not make mistakes. Sometimes hitters foul off those mistakes. Often, they plant them in the stands for a nice homer. That's no fluke either, really, each batter has some capacity for hitting the home run, in the right circumstances, even Kuiper.
So the way I see flukes is that it is an easy excuse for those looking to brand a GM or manager as not being very good and to diminish their accomplishments. The correct way to is to see how the GM constructed the team and how the manager handles the team.
Sabean constructed the team to keep the other team from scoring and then hopefully we score enough to win (i.e. flukiness). That's been a pretty good formula for 3 years now, despite a lot of position players either disappointing or being injured. When you have a below average offense, any type of scoring will appear to be fluky. Yet, no team ever goes 162 games without scoring one run, so is it fluky or is it just randomness in the hands of the baseball gods?
And, in Bochy's case, as I showed in my research, he's a good manager, perhaps one of the greats. In his career, he's the only manager in the NL who has been able to win a significant number of games more than the .500 predicted by sabers in 1-run games. He could be -5 games for the next 10 years and still be above .500 for his career in 1-run games. There is statistical significance to his record being above .500 in 1-run games, and high odds that he is much better than .500 in 1-run games. Which is where the tipping point is, obviously, that talent is present in all games, just that when it is a 1-run situation, his overall skill is shown to the world.
Shankbone, sometimes I think you defend Craw so you can justify not giving in on our bet! This kid is absolutely horrible and has no business being on a major league roster much less a starting shortstop for any team with aspirations of winning. Arias should be our SS, he has a better chance of contributing offensively and news flash, he is better defensively hands down! The only reason Craw isn't in Fresno right now is because we have to play Arias at 3B.
ReplyDeleteGetting Pablo back isn't going to fix this mess either. We will be so many games out of first by the time he comes back it won't make a difference. Even if we were within less then 10, this team is still just a .500 team at best with him in the lineup.
A new manager however is the best chance we have at salvaging anything from this season. Get someone younger or hungrier in there who isn't afraid to play Blanco and bat him leadoff every game, try Pill out at 3B (couldn't be worse then Gillespie), and let Belt play every day so we can actually figure out if this kid is ligit.
It is time to start focusing on evaluating our young players to find out what we have going forward because it is a foregone conclusion that this season is over (with the exception of Craw, I don't need anymore time to evaluate the fact that he is not ready for major league ball). The emphasis shouldn't be on winning right now it should be purely focused on getting these young players as much consistent playing time as possible. The only way the argument of the farm system being strong holds water is if we go into full rebuilding mode and focus everything on the future. Right now we are treading water between thinking we can win now while justifying why we aren't by pointing to the farm system.
That's a good one. Shortstops make errors. Especially one that can actually get to balls put in play. His job is to field, not hit, and I do defend him some because he becomes a whipping boy symbol for the Giants woes, and thats not what his position is really about. SS is a wasteland offensively across MLB. I'm completely critical of his play so far, its been awful. Arias has made some nice plays, I would still consider Crawford superior defensively.
DeleteInjuries last year allowed my favorite whipping boy, one Miggy Tejada, to stick around far past his expiration date. Sandoval brings energy as well as the bat, I wouldn't be that down on his return. They did alright last year without him, we'll see how they do now. You have no idea how many games out they'll be. Baseball can be a strange game.
Pill at third will look as pretty as Pill in left. Pill is a nice spot starter and pinch hitter off the bench. Playing him more than that is really asking for it. Here is what I would do with the batting order and position player mess Bochy has going:
Blanco RF, Belt 1B, Posey C, Melky LF, Huff 3B, Pagan CF, Arias 2B, Crawford SS, Pitcher.
I would stick with it, thick or thin, for 3 weeks. When Buster needs a day off, bump everybody up a spot from 4-7, bat Sanchez 7th. Sure, rotate in Nate, Manny B. A defensive substitution late for Huff would be acceptable for Manny B. See what you have with Huff. Too hard on Huff with the anxiety? I believe he is the best bet to get the team going, or to sink them. Find out early on in the season if he's done or not. He bounces back to his league average, in the middle of the order, you have something. If he doesn't, well, it can't be worse than its already been right?
Huff at 3B?? I think that ship sailed about 8 years ago! I will agree with you on one thing, it can't be worse then its already been!
Delete2 things this lineup does: it gives your 3 best shots at seeing the most pitches and getting on base to the top of the lineup. Ducks on a pond. It puts your best hitter so far (Melky) in the position to do something about it. It puts your 3 most experienced hitters in a row (Melky, Huff, Pagan). Its not perfect by any means, but it gives the best shot at offensive production that I can see. It also has the advantage of balancing out a little of the lefty heaviness that the roster has, but Bochy really needs to stop with the lefties can't face lefties nonsense anyways.
DeletePato, one thing you do is shoot from the hip too much. Huff has 360 games at 3B, is definitely not a good 3B by any means, but has started there back in 2008 with Balto. He actually has more time at 3B than the entirety of his OF adventures. I obviously stated this wasn't an ideal situation. Its a better solution than sending Pill out there though.
Deletepato
Deleteyou really need to take that kneejerk stuff to another board
Pato,
ReplyDeleteThe last time I checked, the D'Backs aren't exactly dominating the league, well, except when they play the Giants. As bad as the Giants have played, they are still ahead of the Snakes in the standings. It's kind of a funny time to be singing hosannas to Kirk Gibson. Yeah, he's done a good job. Is he better than Bochy? I'lll think about it when he wins a WS.
There is no "window" and it is not closing. The Giants entire rotation is secured for at least one more year and pitching will emerge from the farm system
OK, that thought go interrupted. Window. Yeah, the rotation is intact for at least one more year with the top 2 locked up for 5 more. Pitching will emerge from the farm system. The days of building a team through FA are over. The only FA's on the market are grossly overpriced with majr flaws.
ReplyDeleteIMO, the Giants are right on schedule with their rebuild. The 2010 WS win was a pleasant surprise that caused an upward blip in the normal rebuild trajectory, kind of like a stock market bubble. What we are experiencing now is a correction back to the normal trajectory of building a team from within. I say take the long view and stay the course.
Gotta run but will be back later to comment but wanted to leave you guys with this: That world series we won in 2010... was a fluke. We got lucky plain and simple. Bochy got lucky and aside from that he hasn't done squat.
ReplyDeleteFor those believing 2010 was a fluke, please see my extensive comments above regarding flukiness.
DeleteAlso, DrB's comment right below is a good synopsis as well.
WS win was not a fluke any more than most WS wins. Pitching was fantastic and not a fluke. Sabes kept dumpster diving until he cobbled just enough offense together. That was not a fluke either. Sabes dogged persistence paid off. Bochy did a great job of managing, also not a fluke. Bochy is a good manager. The only luck I will concede is the team stayed healthy and there will always be lucky moments that get you through 3 postseason series.
ReplyDeleteShank,
ReplyDeleteAgree with putting Blanco at the top of the lineup every day. Gotta get some runners on base so Melky can do some damage with those XBH's.
Would go with the best defensive lineup. The challenge in that will be 3B until Pablo gets back. I do think Huff deserves one more chance to get on track if and when he feels mentally ready.
A couple of names here: Zelous Wheeler is available on waivers. Quintavious Drains is a draftable college pitcher who's been working on a knuckleball since he was 12. It was taught to him by a childhood friend who was killed in moto vehicle accident.
ReplyDeleteCounting on Melky to hit cleanup and drive in runs isn't much different then just leaving Posey there. Neither of those guys belong there and what will happen is he won't put up the same numbers when RISP opportunities come up. Batting cleanup is a lot of pressure and even more with no 5th hitter to protect you so I don't think that is the solution. I also don't know why you guys think Huff would be any better then Pill at 3B, he used to be a RF as well and we all saw how well he did at the beginning of last year playing there. 3rd is much more difficult then RF so for him to transition back to that position at this point in his career would be extremely difficult. Not to mention, Huff sucks!! If we truly have to ride this out and deal with the hand we are dealt then have Blanco lead off like I have been preaching all year and put Pagan in the 5 hole. Either Belt or Arias batting second and this is the lineup that would produce the most runs:
ReplyDeleteBlanco RF
Belt 1B
Melky LF
Posey C
Pagan CF
Pill 3B or Huff if you want to give him one more shot, I don't but whatever
Arias SS
Burriss 2B
The world series was a complete fluke Dr. B, all of those dumpster dives getting hot at the same time is not something that happens, just look at every other year Sabes has done it and how those turned out!! The pitching was ligit but it was still solid last year and is this year and I don't see us anywhere near making the playoffs much less another WS. Boch did work some magic that last 2 months of 2010 but you can't deny that a ton of that was just guys like Burrell, Ross, Huff, and Uribe all getting lucky at the right time. If this was a strategy that actually worked consistently then we would have made the playoffs last year and in 2009 as the pitching hasn't changed in any of the last 4 years, it is the offense or lack there of that has changed. Look at runs scored per game and we were at least a run better in 2010 then last year or this year. With our great pitching that makes all the difference but to expect dumpster dives to come up aces every year is ridiculous.
Why do people persist in saying that Posey does not belong in the 4 spot? Am I one of the few people to have witnessed the 2010 season?
DeleteNot that I don't think that Sandoval would not be better in that position, as a hitter, but I see the cleanup spot as similar to the closer in the bullpen. It takes a certain personality to not let the pressure get to you hitting in that spot. Some hitters just get nervous no matter where you put them in the lineup (Belt comes to mind there right now). Posey has one of those minds, with his "I ain't gonna take that" mind-set. Posey's mind is tough enough to handle that, Burrell too. It is tough enough to hit like they should, but when the pressure is added on top, it is hard for some to perform. I speak with experience on that.
In 7th grade, I was great playing 3B in practice with my lunchtime team, which earned me the starting job there. That was huge for me because I was always the last guy selected in any sport I played in. But when the whole 7th grade is out there watching me play, all my throws to 1B wouldn't have been caught by Yao Ming leaping as high as he could. I soon returned to playing "Left Out" or the pitcher's mound.
I know, elementary school, but eventually at some level, that level of pressure and panic hits people, and some feel it and move on (like Lincecum has done with his first games in most situations) or some struggle to find the key to relax (as Zito appears to have been suffering the past 5 seasons) and do what they can do in bullpen (a recent Chronicle article noted that Zito has impeccable control throwing his bullpens but once he's in the game....).
Posey has power as well as discipline, plus the mental toughness to handle batting cleanup on a regular basis. He's fine.
Again, fluke and luck. Burrell did that his whole career, how is that luck? Huff has hit like that every other year in his career, how is that fluke? Uribe's two years with the Giants was a fluke, if you look at what he did for the ChiSox before joining the Giants, but it wasn't a fluke compared to what he did for the Giants. Ross, that was where we got lucky, but that is why we play the games and not run everything though a computer to see what happens. Random luck like that always happen, balls going under mitts, pitches going into the heart of the plate.
DeleteWhat was not luck was that we had the pitching and defense to keep an offensively strong Phillies team from scoring enough, so that when Ross came through for us, we could capitalize on that.
What you don't understand is that changing a team takes years to accomplish, in the 6th year of the Braves rebuild, they were still losing nearly 100 games, whereas the Giants were winning the 2010 World Championship. And I don't need to remind you that the Giants equaled the Braves total of championships over their great run, already.
You say the offense hasn't changed, and yes, you can say that if all you are looking at are numbers, but back then, we had a bunch of hired guns and expendables manning the lineup, today, we have a bunch of young farm hands trying to find their way in the majors. As much as you don't like Posey as our cleanup hitter, I think he is a huge improvement over Molina. And Sandoval now is a proven vet, whereas in 2009 he was an unproven rookie. Plus, we have Belt, another potential middle-lineup guy. That is a huge sea change.
Much like the sea change when the Giants rotation went from a bunch of hired guns and expendables, to a rotation is mostly homegrown and 100% homegrown if you look at the most important component: 3 aces. Yet, fans were not happy then about the progress, not looking forward to the future that beckons brightly. In fact, when Bond was gone, a columnist asked in a bold headline what is the Giants now about, now that Bonds is gone, and I answered in post: It's pitching, pitching, and more pitching.
People didn't see that then, people don't see it now that the Giants lineup is shaping up nicely projecting to be Brown, Panik, Cabrera (if we can sign him), Sandoval, Posey, Belt. That can be very good.
Also Dr. B, I gotta call you out on your comment about the DBacks and how they are doing this year. Whenever I make comments like how the 6 first place teams aren't doing it with SP you mention small sample size and when I complain about the Giants sucking you have all sorts of reasons as to why it is OK. Give Arizona the benefit of the doubt, Gibson turned that team around in 1 year and this year is still very early. I would trade Bochy for Gibson and what he is brings to the table any day.
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to be confrontational but do you see my point? You gotta be more consistent with your opinions and if you can justify why the Giants aren't doing well this year I am sure you can come up with a few good arguments as to why Arizona has started out slow.
Pato,
ReplyDeleteSo Bochy winning a WS in a 1 year sample size is a complete fluke and Gibby making the playoffs 1 year with the D'Backs is not? Who's being inconsistent here?
Also, Pato,
ReplyDeleteNot every one of Sabes Dumpster dives in 2010 worked out, or maybe you've forgotten Jose Guillen? Sabes was relentless. He knew he needed some pop in the lineup and kept signing guys until he got it. It wasn't just hitters either. Remember the hue and cry over the trades for Ramirez and Lopez? MCC nearly melted down over trading Bowker!
What you are missing, though is that none of that would have even been possible without that starting rotation plus the closer and setup guy which was assembled by Sabes mostly through scouting, the draft and player development. IMO, it was the best pitching staff in baseball, top to bottom, yes, better than Philadelphia's.
So, yes, some things came together, but they almost always do for any teM that takes it all the way. The last WS winning team that did not need some breaks along the way was the late 90's Yanks, and that is more than a decade ago now.
Bacci,
ReplyDelete"You need to take that knee-jerk stuff to another board."
LOL! That's pretty darn funny coming from you, Bacci, but you and Pato ca keep the knee-jerks coming. It's all good.
Well if we're getting into dissection of the WS team, I'll be the first to admit I was a critic of the Freddy Sanchez trade, very skeptical at first and then downright hostile towards the giants and their medical staff once the injury happened in 2009. You combine that with the Garko trade that went nowhere, and I thought Sabean was done as far as talent evaluation. Freddy Sanchez was huge to that team through the year and especially in the post season. There was lots of fun made of him being a former batting champion as being the sole reason for Sabean wanting him.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the core of the team, based on the number of PAs and the OPS+ as a shorthand for effectiveness, it goes Huff, Sandoval, Uribe, Torres, Sanchez, Posey. 3 were league average (Sandoval, Uribe, Sanchez) and the other 3 were above average to excellent. The additions of Burrell, Ross and Guillen bolstered the offense, but were not the main cogs. Mainly they caught fire with HRs in the 2nd half of the year. I don't have time to look up the main culprits but in my mind it was Posey, Uribe and Burrell doing the most damage.
Right now we don't have enough home runs. Something is going to happen. Calling 2010 a fluke is a very popular thing to do. We'll see what happens, you have to play the games. I've enjoyed the hell out of 2009-11, frustrations and all, because its a home grown team with some moxy. Doesn't mean its perfect, or even good at times. Everybody has different expectations, for me half the fun is in the battle itself. And I like good pitching more than slugfests. I am of the opinion we're just getting set up for the main event. I could be proven wrong, but as long as the pitching holds, we'll carry it along OK. Love to get more hitting where we can find it, but that is so obvious it shouldn't have to be constantly brought up.
Bacci, I wish I could tell you I cared about what you think but I dont. You run your mouth like a kid in a schoolyard and I have yet to read an intelligent post from you so next time you feel like showing your ignorance direct it towards someone else.
ReplyDeleteHey,hey there, Pato,
ReplyDeleteBacci is OK and so are you. You both wear your hearts on your sleeves, heck, we all do here in one way or another, but it's all good. What would the world be like if everybody was coldly analytical about everything? I mean, Fangraphs has it's place, but this ain't Fangraphs.
Like the lineup tonight. I think that's about as good as it's gonna get until Pablo is back. Only thing I'd do different with Pablo is bat him 4'th and move Posey and Pagan to 5 and 6 with Arias moving to short and down to 7 with Burriss at 2B hitting 8'th. I think that's the best combination of defense and offense you can get with this roster. Blanco in CF with Nate in RF might be a tad better on D, but would not be as good offensively.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I will agree with the Bochy critics on: On any given day or night, even the best lineup can get shut down. Can't judge a lineup on one game. This is as good a lineup as you're gonna term Boch. Stick with it and let it gel and see what happens.
ReplyDeleteYou know what Dr. B, I respect the hell out of you and most everyone else that posts here but this isn't the first time Bacci has taken a shot at me. It is one thing to disagree and it is another to be an ass about it and the first couple of times I just let it go. Who knows what Bacci's problem is but respect is a 2 way street and if he can't show a little bit then he doesn't deserve mine. I personally think he got his panties in a bunch when I shot down his dream of Nate being the next Justin Upton! Talk about knee jerk reactions, 3 hot days from Nate and Bacci wanted to crown him the MVP! Funny he hasn't brought up Nate lately... wonder why?
ReplyDeletePato,
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that you might have advised Bacci to take his knee-jerk responses to another site at some point in the past and he was just throwing it back in your face here? I don't keep track of those things, but it seems like a possible scenario. The other possibility I thought of is he might have written it as a tongue-in-cheek joke.
Anyway, I know Bacci has had an irrational exuberance for Nate for a long time. I've been a pretty big Nate fan myself. I think Bacci has acknowledged that Nate might be running out of chances. Believe me, I know as well as anybody that Bacc can get on your nerves, but none of us are without fault on that score. I like Bacci and find many of his comments insightful and funny. He is also a passionate advocate for prospects and down-and-out minor leaguers, and I respect that about him.
In the immortal words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
I try to make sure I am as respectful as possible with everyone but if I did say something in the past that ticked him off, I am a big enough man to apologize. Sorry Bacci for whatever it was and I will make an effort to keep it civil and not step on anyones toes. Now then, lets see if the Giants can get Cainer at least 3-4 runs...
ReplyDeleteJust saw the lineup and noticed Belt batting 2nd, you think Boch is reading some of these posts? I saw lefty mention it first over on his site that Belt has a good OBP and it makes sense. Looking forward to seeing if this can get us some better results!
Wow... watching Crawford right now is the visual equivalent of fingernails on the chalk board. Love Blanco at the top of the lineup scoring runs without getting any hits, thats being a leadoff hitter. I wonder if Belt will ever fill all those holes in his swing.
ReplyDeleteArias makes another great play at 3rd... yeah pretty sure he is a better defender then Crawford.
ReplyDelete