A couple of days ago, Amy G, that's right, Amy G, broke a story about Hector Sanchez taking groundballs at first base. Now, I'm guessing lots of players do lots of things during pre-game warmups, but this one got the attention of the Free Belt crowd and the reaction was almost immediately incendiary. How dare Bruce Bochy find yet another reason to keep Belt on the bench? For his part, Bochy was asked about it and, probably unwittingly, poured nitromethane on the fire by saying it might give him additional options late in a game, or something to that effect. See? He is actually planning on playing him there!
One of the favorite pastimes at another, more well known, Giants oriented website is the full on freakout over things they think Sabes or Bochy MIGHT do at some point in the future. Amy G's Hector story was no exception. A sub-headline in a post entitled On Hector Sanchez Taking Grounders at First, read, "Playing Hector Sanchez at first over Brandon Belt IS negligent."(upper case IS is mine). It concluded with "....and now he'll get playing time at the expense of better hitters."
Whoa Nellie! Hold your horses there, pardner! When, exactly has Hector Sanchez played first base at the expense of Brandon Belt. When has he played first base at all, for that matter? If you all will remember, Nate Schierholtz took some grounders at first base a couple of years ago. He might have even played first base for an inning or two, but I can't remember. Conor Gillaspie took grounders at 2B last year. Brett Pill PLAYED 2B many games last year in Fresno. What became of those stories? OK, let's just assume that Bochy is serious and he fully intends to play Sanchez at first base at some point. Now, I have to admit that if I turn on the TV tonight and find Hector Sanchez standing at first base, I will start to wonder if Brandon Belt might have made pass at Mrs. Bochy or some other egregious personal affront to the manager, but I really don't expect to see that. I have, however, thought of a couple of scenarios where it would actually make some sense.
First, you have to understand the dynamics of having only two catchers on the roster, but with both catchers having useful bats. 1. You can't take your starting catcher out of a game except in an emergency or you risk being left with no catcher if the backup gets injured. 2. You can't use your backup catcher as a PH because then you are in the same boat as if you took the starting catcher out. So, here's the scenarios:
1. Buster is the starting catcher and is working well with the pitcher. Bochy wants to use Hector as a pinch-hitter, but doesn't want to move Buster to 1B in order to keep Hector in the game. If Hector has taken some GB's at first, and done OK with it, he can put Hector at 1B and keep both catchers available.
2. Hector is the starting catcher and Buster is at first. Bochy wants to bring in a reliever who tends to throw balls in the dirt. Bochy thinks Buster is better at blocking balls in the dirt and wants to move him behind the plate without taking Hector out of the game completely. Bingo! Problem solved if Hector can play a passable 1B.
Before we all go and a full on freakout pitchfork hunt for Bruce Bochy, just consider these two scenarios, relax and enjoy the ride!
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Did it ever occur to anyone just to watch the at-bats and realize that Hector Sanchez is a more confident hitter than Brandon Belt? Does it ever occur to anyone that on a team that doesn't score a ton of runs, little things mean wins and losses?
ReplyDeleteI am sick of reading MCC and all the whining and crappy commentary. The best hitting lineup probably includes Buster at first and Belt on the bench. Sorry, this is the big leagues where wins matter.
I have been a huge fan of Belt since he played in San Jose. And I have been the fan to say "give Belt a chance!"
ReplyDeleteBut.... Belt has had his chance. He is hit or miss. Not the solid player that we need out there.
Hector Sanchez has his hands full catching. Quick and dirty is he's started 8 games out of the 21. Good. That is what he's there for, to make sure Buster Posey's ankle and leg are rested and kept in good working order for the year. I doubt he'll keep that exact ratio, but sloppy math projection of 8 segments of 20 games puts him at roughly 64 games started for the year. Which would work out to Posey playing roughly 100 games behind the plate. My crackpot theory on Hector Sanchez was/is the Giants like his bat so much they didn't bother going out on the free agent or trade market and securing a better hitting catcher during the offseason to hedge Buster's return and health. They let him play to competition in spring training, and he won out over the placeholders.
ReplyDeleteIs he green? Yes. Does that make him a "bad" defensive catcher? No, he is actually quite talented, especially his arm. Can he learn on the job, catching bullpens, getting MLB instruction and experience? Yes. Is this hurting his development not playing everyday in Fresno? Personally I don't think so, but its a fair argument. Catchers don't play everyday, the difference between 80-90 starts in Fresno versus 60 in the bigs is balanced out. If he can hack big league pitching, I really don't see the harm. Hector should be able to match Whiteside/Stewart stats fairly easily and has much more upside.
Sanchez has played first base in the past. This taking grounders thing is silly. Between Bochy's obsession with versatility, the two in-game scenarios you painted and the fact many other players have taken grounders at various positions, its s non-story. Don't listen to what Bochy says, watch what he does.
I am glad you are enjoying my new motto. One more word about Mr. Belt and Mr. Bochy and our discussion from the last game post: I feel its important to review at certain intervals. At month end on an off day is a great time to do that. While I don't think a pitchfork is in order, it is a situation worth monitoring closely, and I put forth my ideas on Belt, and backed it up with detailed analysis on what has happened in the first month.
If you want an outsiders view on the how Belt might be viewed from a source with no ax to grind (or political agenda as OGC sort of hinted that I might have, which is patently false and insulting) go listen to the BA guys podcast. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/media/podcasts/ "Major League/Draft Talk". They talk in detail about the Texas farm system, a nice listen. The Belt discussion is around minutes 18-20 after the Texas talk. And there is a lot of draft info that I found interesting as well. These guys are not engaged in any saber snarkiness, could care less about the Giants. Just how they view Belt.
Nice comment Shankbone (of course, among many).
DeleteI would add that it is not just Bochy's obsession, it is Sabean's and the Giants' obsession.
But, to me, terming it an "obsession" makes it a negative in most people's minds. And that is not the right tone to ascribe to this tactic, in my mind.
Versatility is a necessity in today's NL style baseball (i.e. no DH and 25 man rosters). With a 12 man pitching staff, there is only 5 position players on the bench, and really, only 4 because one has to be the backup catcher. 4 players to cover 8 potential positions. Versatility is a must if your team hopes to 1) win in extra innings and 2) cover itself whenever there are injuries or other reasons for lack of performance.
I totally agree on the part regarding watching what Bochy does and not what he says. Not that what he says don't have any meaning, but too many people seem to think that the manager's words are etched in stone tablets, when really, they must always be taking in context to the situation as he had at that particular point in time.
As I noted in my comment, and probably I shouldn't have included it, I know that there was nothing political in how you presented it, I was just likening it to that. Still, I did not intend to insult you so my apologies for that.
All I was trying to say was that context is very important if you are going to parse anybody's quotes, whether politician or baseball manager. Sure, Bochy said he wasn't going to sit Belt, that he was going to play him regularly, but then Belt comes to him and say he's pressing. If Bochy continued starting Belt even though he said he was pressing, one could legitimately question Bochy doing that (though Durocher famously continued playing Willie Mays even though he was oh-fer the majors and Willie asked out of the lineup; but Willie had sterling minor league stats, with only 10 K's in 149 AB).
Still, my apologies for insulting you, as it was not my intention. I should have listened to the voice inside telling me not to, but I thought you would understand properly given the praise I've given your commentary. I over assumed our familiarity and relationship, and for that I'm sorry.
I'm sure the podcast is good but I don't have time to listen to it (I'm still trying to make time to listen to the Sabean/Bochy podcast on Giants Nerd-vanna back from Fan Day) but I don't need to listen to it to know that Belt is a great prospect (God, maybe I should just refrain from commenting until my brain recovers from my faceplant on the concrete, I keep on finding parts of my thoughts missing when re-reading what I wrote).
DeleteMy position is pretty simple: I think Belt can be a great hitter, but until he figures out how NOT to strike out against AAA pitchers, he has a snowball's chance in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks to developing into that in the majors. Some think that challenging him enough times in the majors will make him better. I'm saying that that doesn't always work.
Everybody is different. I think the comments coming out from the Giants have made it clear that Belt is a bit of a nervous nelly, with his confidence flying high and low depending on the day (and his results in the lineup). Nothing wrong with that, I'm a nervous nelly too.
To me, that leaves two choices of properly handling him. One is the way the Giants are doing it: get his bat to a point where they are happy enough, and you give out some rope and start playing him; if he hits great, but as he's been doing, if he's not hitting, then you pull him back and try again. And again. And again. As they have been doing since last season.
It finally worked with Matt Williams, but there are plenty of top prospects who just never figure it out and don't even make it as an MLB regular starter, let alone the superstar status their fans envisioned for him.
The other is the way I've suggested, which is put him in AAA where the pressure is less and he can work on things without the glare of MLB baseball shining on him. As a nervous nelly myself, that's why I prefer this option for Belt. I think repetition in game situations would be the best way to solve that, but in the minors, he'll have enough success to not have his confidence crater, while in the majors, not so much, as least so far. When you get schooled too many times in a roll, it does get into your head, it does make you more tentative, and there is no way anybody can be a good hitter in the majors being tentative.
One thought that I just had today was that maybe Belt's confidence might take a hit if he's demoted. I know that Frandsen sulked himself off of the Giants when he was demoted to AAA to work on things. That's why I tend to be positive and hope that the Giants are doing the right thing because these are humans we are talking about, and they are the closest to the situation and hopefully reading his moods and feelings right, so that they can properly develop him. Just installing him at 1B, damn the consequences, just reminds me of Fantasy Baseball-itis (or my era, Strato-matic-itis).
Thanks OGC, we're cool. I'm a congenial guy and generally thick skinned but I have my moments just like anyone else. Looking over the thread maybe I was a bit fired up, but I felt like my points were getting ignored and lumped into something else. I would assume with the familiarity of discussion that its clear I don't have any agenda or ax to grind. Unfortunately there is no way to avoid discussing Bochy in this situation.
DeleteI don't want people to get the wrong idea and think I'm down on Brandon Belt or that I don't like him. Au contraire, I love Brandon Belt. I happen to think he is coming along fine and will continue to grow as a ballplayer. I think he's going to be the great offensive AND defensive player at 1B the Giants have been searching for seemingly forever. You know what? I think that's exactly the way the Giants see him too!
ReplyDeleteDoc,
ReplyDeleteYou hit the nail right on the head with your post. I can think of a couple times when Hector got a pinch hit AB and I thought "please lord, don't let Buster get nicked." If Hector can play a passable 1B for an inning or two in the late innings, it gives Bochy some flexibility.
I guess Bochy must really hate Brandon Belt. I mean, hitting him 5'th in the lineup behind Panda and Buster Posey? How on Earth is he ever going to succeed hitting in that God-forsaken part of the lineup? (hope you guys can recognize tongue-in-cheek when you see it.),
ReplyDeleteAffeldt going on the DL with a strained knee... seems like one of those phantom injuries so he can work on some things what do you think? We all knew that there were going to be situations like this during the season where Belt was going to be fighting for PT so it shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone. This team has too many players deserving of starts and not enough positions to put them in. I thought that Huff being out would allow this problem to work itself out but there are still too many options which is a good thing!
ReplyDeleteSo if we have this problem now with Nate, Belt, Pill, and Hector all fighting over 2 spots in the lineup essentially, what will happen when Huff comes back? For the first time in I can't remember, we actually have too much depth on offense and it makes sense to try and make a move or two so that it opens up clear cut paths for guys like Belt and Pill (yes I am advocating trading Nate or Huff and maybe even Hector if the price is right). Basically this is a very good problem to have but that doesn't mean it isn't frustrating.
Pato your boy Hanley needs to keep playing his game. That's the priority for the next 3 days.
DeleteHe is killing my fantasy teams. I am hoping you were wrong about him!!
DeleteWell, it is phantom if you consider his young but large son to be a phantom. Apparently he has an unfortunately rich history of weird and unusual injuries.
DeleteI know this team all too well. Here are a few points I have been making that were all reinforced by tonights game:
ReplyDelete-Nate is not so great and Blanco can help this team more then Nate against righties.
-Crawford isn't cutting the mustard, Shankbone you may want to concede your bet with me at this point as your boy just dropped below the mendoza.
-Posey and Panda should be switched in the lineup
-Belt just isn't the guy and we can't sit around waiting for him to figure it out at this point.
Here are a couple more of my thoughts: I am starting to lose faith in Melky. I had a conversation with some friends over the weekend regarding who we should keep after this year between Pagan and Melky and I am leaning towards Pagan. I have been watching Melky closely and liked what I saw early on but he is starting to show his weaknesses at the plate. He isn't jumping on pitches like he did early on and I think I like what Pagan brings to the table a little bit more and he will probably end up being cheaper as well.
I like Bochy a lot but am getting tired of his predictable lineups with the lefty/righty automatic matchups. He tweaked it a little today putting Theriot in instead of Burris but that was only because of his history vs. Nolasco. Other then that it is automatic that he puts the lefties in against RHP and vice versa and I am sorry but if guys like Nate, Craw, and Belt can't hit RHP a lot better then they have, start giving more deserving players like Pill, Arias, and Hector their chances because I don't buy the notion that Pill and Arias don't deserve at bats vs. righties and Sanchez just looks better then Belt on a consistent basis. This is a debate I would love to get into, is going with the lefty/righty matchup really the best option when putting together a lineup as well as when going to the bullpen or should Boch focus more on who is hitting/pitching well instead of what arm they throw with or what side of the plate they bat from? Tough loss tonight but it is games like these that help establish who deserves to be in the lineup on a consistent basis.
I jumped the gun on Craw, he actually got a hit but didn't exactly look good in his other 2 at bats.
DeleteGame wrap up, but what happened tonight really defies analysis. I have no faith that any lineup combination would have done any better with that 9'th inning. Belt was weak tonight but as long as Huff is out, should get a string of starts at 1B to try to get it going. I do think that if Belt ever put several good games in a row together, he wouldn't look back. I'm not against trying Blanco at leadoff in place of Nate in the OF. In that scenario, I'd actually move Pagan to #3, Pablo to #4 and Buster to #5. Buster is a terrific hitter, but a base clogger and a DP risk. I'd move him down instead of up. #5 is still a great RBI position in the order.
DeletePato, do I seem like a guy who is going to concede anything until the bitter end? The bet isn't Crawford's BA, its his ability to stick in the lineup. And he's leading the team in doubles while having a fair amount of babip trouble. Crawford ain't the problem in this lineup.
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