The Giants futility in driving in baserunners reached a point of dark comedy tonight as they failed to cash in on what seemed like a certain big inning in the bottom of the 8'th inning and go on to lose the game by one run. Here's how it played out: Pinch hitter Gregor Blanco led off with a liner into the RF corner for a double. Pagan laid down a terrible bunt way too close to the plate, but the Marlins catcher became distracted by Blanco's speed going to third, coudn't quite decide what to do and finally pulled the first baseman off the bag to put runners at first and third with no outs. Melky Cabrera then hit a soft tapper to a shallow first basemen and was tagged out with Pagan advancing to second, but Blanco having to hold at 3B. Pablo Sandoval was intentionally walked. Ozzie then brought in sinkerballer Edward Mujica to face Buster Posey. Now, Buster Posey is as fine a hitter as there is, but he does tend to hit a lot of ground ball singles and ground ball outs. The problem with runners on base is he also tends to hit into DP's. Well, that's exactly what happened here. End of inning with nothing to show for it. OK, team. Don't anybody come on here talking about "situational hitting." Whatthehell were Melky and Posey supposed to do in those "situations" except hit the darn ball as hard and as far as they could? Was Melky supposed to lay down a squeeze bunt? I'm pretty sure Buster knew he was supposed to elevate one on Mujica and was trying. Yeah, the situation called for the ball to be hit hard and far. It just didn't happen as it hasn't happened on a ridiculous level for a ridiculous amount of time. Key Lines:
Angel Pagan- 1 for 3, S. BA= .253. Pagan has now hit in 15 straight.
Pablo Sandoval- 2 for 3, 2B, HR(5), BB. BA= .323. Pablo now has a two game hit streak after taking one game to end his 20 game hit streak. If it weren't for Matt Kemp, I'd say Sandoval is headed for a MVP season.
Brandon Belt- 0 for 4. BA= .250. 3 weak grounders to 1B and a weak flyball out. He didn't strike out. He needs to keep playing, but could sit tomorrow with Zito on the mound and Hector Sanchez catching. Buster could play 1B.
Matt Cain- 8 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 1 BB, 4 K's. ERA= 2.35. Cain was a bit shaky in this one. He gave up a lot of long flyball outs. If felt like a matter of time until one left the park. Stanton's bomb was a liner off a hanging curve that left the yard in a hurry and curved around the LF foul pole. It's a testament to Cain's acumen as a pitcher that despite appearing to not have his best stuff, he ended up with a QS and some to spare. Shame that once again the Giants offense could not get their runners home.
The Dodger held off the Colorado Rockies to gain a game on the Giants who are now 4.5 games behind and in 3'rd place in the NL West. The D'Backs topped the Nats again to move a half game ahead of the Giants. The Pathetic Padres shut out the Brew Crew 2-0 to stay 9.5 games back in last place.
Barry Zito tries to keep his magical season going facing another pitcher with a checkered past in Carlos Zambrano tomorrow night at AT&T Park.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
With Huff coming back in a week or so who goes down? I vote for Belt until either Huff plays himself off this team or there is an injury. I agree that Belt should get more consistent PT but I don't think he deserves it right now unless it is down in Fresno or in AA where he would face better pitching. The lefty/righty automatic lineups from Boch don't make sense for me right now, play the guys who are hot and deserve to start which don't include Nate, Craw, or Belt.
ReplyDeleteHuff's not coming back that fast. We still have time to sort it out.
DeleteTo be positive, the Giants had nice extra base hits. One key could be to lengthen the lineup. The Blanco for Nate at leadoff and bumping everybody down idea sounds promising. On this RISP issue, they have a .197 BA, a .200 babip and a .272 obp, in 235 PAs and 203 ABs so far this season(which rank near the top actually - they are getting the runners on). The BA is 2nd lowest to Oakland, the babip is tied for last with Oakland and the obp is the lowest in the majors. On the plus side, today was only our 3rd GIDP. I don't know if any of those stats have any meaning. If we didn't have the problem last year we wouldn't even look at it. If it continues it'll be a major issue, beyond the obvious the beat guys will love to throw it up in their twitter feeds for anxious fans.
ReplyDeleteMatt Cain is making his own case along with Sandoval.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGeez never seen a comment removed on here. What did he say?
DeleteShankbone is the bestestest ever? I think it says removed by the author, not by the admin.
DeleteI think I've only had to delete 2 or 3 comments at the most since I started the site. If you come here trying to cause trouble, I'll hit the button on you, but everybody has behaved themselves really well. Don't have to always agree, just keep it civil.
DeleteThis one was deleted by whoever wrote it. Never seen that handle before. Looks like a spammer of some sort, though.
https://twitter.com/#!/HeatherBenard/status/197505321638440961
ReplyDeleteblah, blah, blah....who cares...the above is what its all about
picture and sentiments by heather benard, daughter of maurice benard...soap star and one of my heroes...hope he got a chance to chat with huff
Just listened to Krukow talk in circles about Belt on KNBR.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the Theatre of the Absurd, where a new actor takes the stage every day further confuse the audience.
Belt was hitting .370+ over his last handful of games. He takes an 0 for 4 on a night the Giants offense stumbles and we begin talking about who he will lose playing time to? First of all, that’s not a whole lot of playing time. But then the capper, he will lose playing time to that big producer………Aubrey Huff. Good luck with those number Kruk.
Huff will be eligible to come off the DL in week, and a complicated situation gets messy. Huff is liked and respected in the clubhouse, but his numbers over his last 600+ ABs are subterranean. If Bochy forces Huff into the lineup and his weak bat and weaker defense drag the Giants down the situation could get unpleasant.
Either give the kid four to five starts a week or ship him to Fresno. Get him away from the idiot logic that seems to drive Giant decision making.
I will tell you I am 100% in favor of Belt playing every single day...if only to put a halt to the complaining. Although I'm a tad skeptical that they have anyone other than Posey that will put up ANY decent numbers at 1st base this year.
DeleteThat certainly includes Belt. But I sure would like him to prove me wrong.
Belt will hit. Just leave him alone. Get him in the line-up four or five times per week and the results will follow.
ReplyDeleteI have mentioned this before, but I will toss it out again. Check out the numbers on Matt Williams between 1987 thru 1990.
Williams had a battleship size hole in his swing, the low and away breaking pitches - a hole that he never solved completely. But, after fiddling around with Matt for three years the Giants committed to him in 1990.
Is the comparison fair, only time will tell. But, what the Giants are doing now is getting us no closer to the answer.
If Belt delivers, the Giants win big. If Belt shows he is fundamentally flawed, we know and we can move forward.
Agree 100% with this.
DeleteI would certainly not take away AB's from Belt to give them to Huff at this point, but I don't agree that there is no middle ground to playing every day in the majors vs playing every day in AAA. I think he can progress as a part time player at the MLB level.
DeleteDoc,
DeleteWhat do you think happens when Huff is activated?
Matt Williams has been the poster boy for every single young Giants player that struggles upon arrival. And I don't think the same circumstances have ever been proven to be valid for anyone other than Matt Williams himself. I'm not buying that the reason Matt Williams suddenly figured it out was because they committed to him. It was a process of learning that took a few years and by age 24 he became a star. I certainly don't see that happening for Belt in the same timeframe. I think there are some fundamental flaws with Belt that need to be addressed before he becomes the player everyone thinks he can be.
DeleteI personally don't think they can be solved by more playing time. It's like watching a golfer on the driving range hit a bucket of balls. The swing results in tons of slices and duck hooks. Is anyone going to believe all he needs to do is hit more buckets or play more rounds and all will be solved? Never going to happen.
As I said I would just as soon see him play everyday just to put the whole thing to rest once and for all.
Changes need to be made or the results won't.
There was a damn good reason for the Matt Williams yo-yo...he wasn't ready. Everyone thinks Belt's situation can be solved by just letting him play. That's not generally how it works for most players.
Scott,
DeleteI don't think Huff is going to be activated as soon as we think, but when he is, I'm pretty sure he will get a chance to show he's in a better place. Like Baggs said in his chat, though, I don't think he will have as long a leash as last year.
Sitting on cherry-pickers up in the leafy treetops are those who cite one or two players who first floundered and then succeeded (Mays, Matt Williams, J. Bautista) and ignore a great batch of players who first floundered, then floundered more, and finally stopped floundering because they foundered, sank, visited Davy Jones's locker.
ReplyDeleteLet's try the perhaps equally arbitrary example of Buster Posey, who had a short minor-league career, then a September sitting on the Giants' bench, then went back to the minors, then came up to play first rather than catch, and finally became the Giants' catcher after Molina went south(-east). Bloggers raged and grieved at the time, and still bemoan the team's myopia in delaying so long before giving Buster his due. But one can reasonably counter-suppose that Buster's success itself resulted from his being eased in, learning during his September on the bench, applying and refining the learning in AAA, then getting comfortable as an MLB hitter while at 1B, and at last being ready to take over from Molina. This treatment suggests that one can find,as DrB says, alternatives in the way one brings young players along. The analogue between Posey and Belt is certainly inexact. Nonetheless, it seems to me instructive for the team's treatment of Belt, in contrast to the fixation on BB's being an everyday player in AAA or MLB, either one, while any alternative equals mishandling or worse.
Don't want to speak for Scott Thompson, but citing Matt Williams as an optimistic example was one part of the statement. The other part was "If Belt is flawed we can move on". The scouts (BA rating, Keith Law gossip, etc) and the stats (Bill James, ZIPS, etc) predict Belt as a JT Snow type player. We're Giants fans, we don't have to go far for Davy Jones locker type examples. And if you want to go highly rated floundering, sure there are plenty of can't miss prospects who fail, another Brandon, Brandon Wood, being an easy example.
DeleteI understand the concept of Bochy "easing" Belt into the lineup. That has to be weighed against other opinions (however shrilly they might be delivered). In my view, you reinforce success. When a young rook delivers game winning hits you throw him right back out there. I believe pretty strongly in that one. I have not seen anything like that from Bochy. It is still early in the season and yes, there are different ways to bring young players along, and each player is different.
On the everyday player front, somebody needs to step up, because the chance of platoons in 4 positions is looking likely right now. I can take 2 and some Posey rotation, but the daily Bochy pickem is getting old. And yes, Belt can have all the OBP potential in the world but if he doesn't step up and get hits he'll never get close with the OBP part of the equation either, something the freebelt crowd might not quite grasp.
Cherry-pickers is the perfect. Totally agree. I didn't see your post before I wrote mine.
DeleteThis is interesting, or not, depending on your view of Baggs. It happens to correspond pretty closely with my theory on the situation:
ReplyDeleteFrom baggs chat: I have wondered about this. I’d say Sabean trusts his manager to make the lineup, and he understands Belt hasn’t earned his way yet. I also woudl say that Belt probably has to prove himself more to Bochy than to Sabean.
by Andrew Baggarly
You know Shank I just want you to know something.
DeleteYou missed quite a bit of the final go around with me and quincy. It turned downright revealing. His ignorance of the game showed itself in spades. Jponry saw it too and couldn't handle one her own getting shown up for what he really is...an uninformed over-educated phony that uses snark to hide the ignorance.
You clearly didn't see it because jponry made sure as few eyes as possible would. It was a gutless hatchet job edit done AFTER I was banned. And there was no bad language or threats or anything. It was simply one their own getting his ass handed to him on some pretty basic baseball related matters.
I've dealt with plenty of phonies in my time. I specialize in cutting to the chase and calling the BS when I see it. It has served me well in my business life and life in general for that matter. When someone thinks they can talk down and ridicule they better have the goods to prove they're worthy or I'm going to embarrass you. Quincy didn't come close to knowing his stuff. Not even a little close. It was a joke.
Finally, I was a little taken aback at your saying "too bad he doesn't play nice." I don't play nice when the uninformed take unfounded shots. Apparently others feel the need to roll over when pressed. I've never rolled over for anyone in my life.
That you can bank on.
Hey SF! Welcome to the board. Usually there are two sides to the story in a flamefest, but I read your Fanpost over on MCC and the comments. Gotta say, I really liked your post. I have no idea whether you are right or not about Belt, because I'm not enough of a hitting coach to know, but you backed up your theory with links to pics and video as well as comments from a respected hitting coach in Don Mattingly. The attacks on you were vicious and completely uncalled for and yes, ignorant. Unfortunately, that type of response to outsiders and non-groupthinkers has become pretty commonplace over there. Anything out of their mainstream or anything perceived as slightly critical of one of the inner circle gets attacked by the pack, and God forbid that anyone should ever question Grant.
DeleteAnyway, welcome to When the Giants Come To Town. We try to keep it real here. We don't always agree, but try to keep the debate civil. Think of it as how you would feel about meeting up with the other guy at a Cal League game and talking some baseball. Kind of the baseball version of the Golden Rule. If you come to loggerheads with somebody, you can always just agree to disagree!
Debating the issues is why I love the game. There's so much to talk about over 162. And opposing views are fun.
DeleteAppreciate the welcome.
SpeierFuentes - I am not sure why you feel the need to discuss the MCC dust up to me specifically on another site. Like DrB, I liked your post. Unlike DrB, I commented on the post, asked some questions and stood up for your right to comment and your content in real time as it was going on. Also unlike DrB, I have a slightly different viewpoint on the responses you got. There was actually a fair amount of support for you from posters, and it was a healthy discussion, for a while as least.
ReplyDeleteYour last paragraph looks to me as the point you want to get across. Let's be clear here: my comment was made after you threw down the "keep your teeth" statement. There is a clear line that got crossed, and I find it completely unacceptable. I have no time for the internet tough guy line. I stand by that, and another comment I made: those who want respect give respect. I grew up in Oakland, only white kid on the bus going by Oakland Tech. I got tough, but I also learned discretion and diplomacy. Your "bank on" comment, if that is directed towards me, is a waste of time. You pull tough talk with me, I'll just ignore you. There is another term besides "roll over", its called "know when to fold them". DrB's version is "agree to disagree" and its a good one.
That said, I like this site for the ability to discuss baseball on many different levels. You'll find its not about being the smartest snappiest guy in the room, the latest and greatest equations aren't rolled out often and you most likely won't get attacked for a chippy viewpoint. That should take some pressure off, and I hope maybe gets that chip off your shoulder. I'm not sure if I agree with you, but I think you should send your theory on Belt to the Giants for the hell of it. Stranger things have happened, and that would be a kick ass story. Cheers, Shank
I discussed it here because it was the only place I could. The banning and all. But hey, it's over now. I said what I needed to say and so did you. It's all good.
DeleteAll good. I hear you about that. Send it in. That would be legendary if you got banned from MCC and ultimately cleared the way for Brandon Belt to break out, as he is the hot topic #1 and some posters on the joint believe all that has to happen is for mean stutpid Bruce Bochy to stop benching him and magic will happen.
DeleteOkay.....hope we got that wrapped up.
ReplyDeleteGiants futility with RISP seems to be continuing unabated.
On Belt: Shankbone says, "In my view, you reinforce success. When a young rook delivers game winning hits you throw him right back out there. I believe pretty strongly in that one. I have not seen anything like that from Bochy." But aren't rewards for short-term performance, and in theory the corollary of anti-rewards (= the bench) for short-term lack of performance, exactly what leads insecure players to press, Belt's ostensible problem in the first place? I'm not surprised, therefore, that you haven't seen Bochy playing Pavlov or B.F. Skinner with Belt. He is easing pressure, instead, by platooning, to let Belt know that the fate of the team doesn't rest on his bat, while playing him often enough to let him develop confidence, and talking him up enough for Belt to believe that he is likely to be the regular first baseman for the team in 2013, if not sooner. I don't know if this is the right way to handle Belt, but it's a rational strategy; and I dare say a strategy that comes from Bochy's consulting with Meulens, Wotus, et al., not from his rigidity, pathology, or stubborn deafness to the error-free wisdom of the MCC.
ReplyDeleteAs to the MCC and SpeierFuentes, I agree wholly with Shankbone, save that snideness and sneers riddled the "healthy discussion" from the start, and goaded SpFu toward unacceptable tough talk. If I were SpFu, I don't think I would care to frequent MCC any more; but for jponry to ban him, if she did, is pretty shameful, atypical behavior on her part.
I don't care about the banning. The place was revealed to be full of pretenders. I was not going to be spending much there in any case. But the hatchet edit job jponry pulled off was appalling. That's it for me no more MCC mentions.
DeleteI promise
Campanari - You and I post at MCC, Lefty's, here and at OGC's. I enjoy what you put down, and we get along well. I don't really want to dwell on this, but there are two sides to a story, and your narrative is missing a couple things: the snarky posters crashing in early on SF were from previous dust ups, jponry pushed the button but it was a joint decision after several mod warnings, and myself and several other posters put up "release valves" to follow other paths of discussion. We have different viewpoints and tolerance for sneers, and I completely agree SF was goaded. It is slightly ironic though, that Quincy of all people did the damage. Quincy is a prospect hound, he is noted for being extremely hard headed and long winded. Hmmm... sounds like somebody I like to have discussions with here and elsewhere actually. Quincy has no problem going off the reservation and making his own stand, the assertion of deletion of threads to protect what he posted doesn't pass the smell test, I would not consider him an MCC insider at all. Without seeing the posts I can't comment on content, but I'll say this: perhaps without the heated discussion already in place, things might have been different. Quincy likes to have logic discussions at times that drive several people nuts and he doesn't give up a point willingly or easily. Personally, I get along with him well.
DeleteEnough about that, what about my assertion of playing a hot streak? You make good points. I maintain Bochy is overreacting to his early 2011 treatment of talking Belt up to the sky. But it could be a rational strategy, as you described. I think in baseball hot streaks can be fleeting though, and building on those successes can be important. Don't know the right answer, but I also agree this is short term worry, the Giants have expressed a long term commitment to him. I think its in their best interest to find out about him as soon as possible so they can have the information to plan accordingly, but that is easy to say and hard to do. In arguing with OGC early on about Belt I used the Freddie Freeman example, and it appears Grant just put up a Giancarlo Stanton example as well. I think my example was wrong now, teams can't afford to give up ABs for extended periods of time. A managers most precious resource is ABs during a season. And each player is different. While I disagree with the absolutism of the strong sentiment of "all Belt needs is ABs and it'll work itself out" on MCC and elsewhere, I have to admit I'm not sold on Bochy's pickem lineup either. Is there no happy medium? Maybe not. Relax and enjoy the ride!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSorry Bacci,
DeleteI certainly understand your frustration, and I feel like saying that myself after last night's debacle of a game, but we're trying to keep this a family appropriate site.