The Giants did not add on to an early 1-0 lead and the Brewers played small ball to scratch out 3 runs in the 6'th, 7'th and 8'th innings off Madison Bumgarner to ruin his Quality Start. Key Lines:
Alen Hanson(.281), Buster Posey(.282), Brandon Crawford(.286), Gorkys Hernandez(.271)- 2B. Hanson had one additional hit. The Giants lone run scored on B2B doubles by Crawford and Posey in the 2'nd inning.
Madison Bumgarner LHP- 8 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K's, GO/AO= 12/2. ERA= 3.06. If you live by the groundball, you die by the groundball. You'll get a lot of Quality Starts with a line like this, but the BABIP gods and going to make sure they get their share of the house money. The offense has to do their share.
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The Loss drops the Giants back below .500 at 52-53. They are now 6.5 games behind the Dodgers and in 4'th place in the NL West. They are 5 games back in the Wild Card race. The Dodgers, D'Backs and Rockies all won so the D'Backs remain 1.5 games out of the lead with the Rockies in 3'rd place, 2 games out.
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Johnny Cueto tries to get the Giants on the winning side of the ledger again today facing Jhoulys Chacin.
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If the Giants are in a wait and see mode with the trade deadline approaching, the answer to their question is they are rapidly dropping out of this race and need to be thinking sell. I get that they don't want to dismantle the team and go on a longterm rebuild, but what about next year? They do have several players who are not under contract who could bring at least a modest return in trade.
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Baer was quoted as saying they are not in a sellers mode, they will be buyers if they can be buyers. Their situation is complex where if they want to acquire player x they may have to trade player y to make room to stay under the CBT. It'll be interesting next few days before the deadline.
ReplyDeleteLG
If the can pull something like that off, more power to them. Right now, I'm not seeing it, and it is rapidly becoming a case of too little too late even could turn back the clock and land Manny Machado!
DeleteSo, if they are buying, they better get something going pronto.
DeleteI love reading fan posts on this blog and knobs site etc and the consensus is that FO is clueless, having traded good prospects (like Crick) for aging Vets. Baer can not trot out the line "we are building around our core" and cannot dismantle.
ReplyDeleteWhat Core?? Posey has 5 HR's and is a long way from MVP form.
Team had a great run to be sure but their pitchers fell apart prematurely (Lincecum and Cain) and their luck in signing Vets like Huff and Burrell has run out.
Red Sox, Astros, Cubs all rebuilt around Youth and even the Pirates and Phillies who were crappy last year have a better, younger team.
FO needs a reality check and phradses such as We doi not have Rebuild in our DNA is the most ignorant thing a FO can say.
Only reason this team is close to .500 id because of Rodriguez, Hansen, Pablo (dumpster dives) and Suarez being brought up. Nicest compliment I can make is that FO promoted Rodriguez and Hansen without delay and called up Suarez and kept him on 25 man roster over Beede.
I hope I am not giving out the impression I think the Giants FO is "clueless". They have way too long of a track record of success to say something like that. They did improve the team significantly from last year while staying under the CBT threshold which was impressive. They have an extraordinary track record of finding value in "dumpster dives". They are proving once again that the farm system is underrated. I think they had a great draft and International signing haul this summer. So, they are doing some things right. They are very boxed in with the CBT and are obsessively focused on remaining competitive as far into the season as possible to keep butts in the seats. In the process, I think we all fear they may be missing opportunities to be better in the future. Fans like us would gladly sacrifice the rest of this season to be better next year and the years after that. I'm not sure the average fan who buys tickets thinks like that. The Giants obviously think they don't.
DeleteLike Dr.B said, they did a lot of good things considering their constraints. But I think they've fallen into a common trap -- one more shot. And the problem was the team had four big holes -- LF, RF, CF & 3B plus no truly established #4/#5 pitchers and a weak bullpen.
DeleteThat was too much to fix and be an honestly competitive team, but yet enough to tease and hurt the team's draft position in the 2019. But I don't think they either recognized it, or (perhaps) allowed to address it by ownership and simply begin the youth-movement this year with an eye to fielding some experienced youth plus a possible high quality bat in the 2019 FA period.
Because they are the Giants they probably won't - But they need to sale as many pending FAs as they can. Dyson, Cutch, etc. Look at what Nunez got us last year when he wasn't even playing great - both of those guys are ranked in our midseason top 10 now. Just keep adding lotto tickets to our farm.
ReplyDeleteAlso won't happen - but with teams so desperate for SP if someone would actually take Cueto right now I would trade him. He's probably going to be solid for a few years but I would get out from under that contract given the chance.
Going further into "it won't happen" territory, Madison Bumgarner's trade value is as high as it will ever be. The Giants absolutely should not sign a big longterm deal with a pitcher with that much mileage on his arm. The haul they could get for him now would be a huge boost for the future. I think it is highly unlikely that Giants do something like that and if the team looked like it was a strong contender for next year, I probably wouldn't either, but looking at the current makeup of the team and what it might look like next year and into the future, it's something I would like to see them do.
DeleteI'd try to trade Cutch and Gorkys pronto and bring up Shaw and Mac to fill their spots. Cutch is a seasoned veteran and is doing nothing for the team. Gorkys value will never be higher.
ReplyDeleteThe Giants as an organization strives to remain competitive year after year, but underlying that philosophy is their desire to keep their franchise players at all costs. That means it is very unlikely that we will see either of Posey or Bumgarner traded. If Posey and Bumgarner choose, they will remain Giants for their entire careers. The FO hopes the marquee players will keep the fans coming back and the key to winning in the future will have to be building a strong young team around them. They are possibly positioning themselves to add another star player in free agency this off season and the last two drafts and this year's international signings are encouraging so hopefully the future is not as dire as it presently appears.
ReplyDeleteI am one of the few who was impressed with the offseason moves and appreciated the direction Evans and Sabes tried to go. It didnt work mostly because of injuries but it was a hell of an effort to make the moves they did while staying under the CBT and giving the team a chance to be competitive this season. It is time to focus on a new strategy which has to include moving one or two of the “core”.
ReplyDeleteThe Phillies tried to keep their “core” together too long and it took them 7 years to get back to being competitive. The core isnt going to magically dominate next year and the year after so it is very frustrating as a fan to see management get so defensive when players like MadBum or Posey are talked about in trades. I can still remember how frustrated I was as a kid when Matt Williams was traded but I quickly got over it the following year when the 3 players he was traded for ended up helping the team make the playoffs.
The “core” right now is MadBum, Posey, Belt, Crawford, and Panik. Pick 2 of the 5 and flip them for pieces that can help next year. Technically it would be a shake up not a fire sale and would free up some salary and position flex for next season. We woud still have 3 “core” players to remind us of the championships and to “build around” next year and after that but we would also be committing to the next wave of core players. Belt and Panik would be the 2 players i would move without hesitation. May not get a ton for them but thats ok. You would get another 20-25 million cleared for payroll next season, open up positions that Hanson and eventually Posey will be taking over, get 2 left handed bats out of the lineup, and maybe get a piece or two that helps this team in the future.
Panik isn't a core piece type player (bat wise, good defender). Longo is a core guy just because he is stuck here. Probably the same with Cueto / Shark / Melancon.
DeleteNone of the guys you mentioned are tradeable. The mets have shown interest in Panik in the past and Belt should fetch some interest but nobody is taking Longo’s, Cuetos’s Shark’s or Melancon’s contracts off the Giants hands. I wouldnt consider them core pieces partly because of that and partly because they have consistently underprformed now for a long enough sample size that they cant be counted on moving forward.
DeleteI don't think Panik is core. He's, basically, become an average defensive second baseman as injuries (back, concussion, vision) have impacted his ability to play well. In fact, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hanson take 2B out-right.
DeleteI think a good new 'core' is Bumgarner, Cueto, D Rodriguez, Suarez, Crawford, Mac, Duggar and Slater. Thing is that both Longoria and Cutch are underproducing - Cutch should be movable this weekend - for Yankees P #77 or 79 on MLB top 100? Maybe if they throw in Watson. And if Moustakis was movable, Longoria could also be movable to desperate contender. Belt and Panda at the corner IF. Crawford and Panik up the middle - there's your nostalgic 'core' IF. Bullpen OK if managed well with Strickland coming back.
ReplyDeleteAs pointed out by someone I follow on Twitter. Those who watched the game last night saw something they may not see again until 2062, the year Halley’s Comet is to appear. It was a sacrifice bunt by an MLB position player that actually led to a run scored. I believe there have been a few times this year that a sac bunt would have put a runner in scoring position. In a game that has all but forgotten, small ball still works!
ReplyDeleteThe Giants are pretty much locked into a near death spiral payroll cycle through 2020, and probably 2021, with the "big salary" guys unlikely to return value WAR/$ as they decline, crowd out costly (and risky) FA acquisitions, and block younger fresher players.
ReplyDeleteWhen you need ONE guy, maybe you can roll the dice, but the Giants tried to plug THREE holes for 2018 and, realistically, failed spectacularly on all three.
Bumgarner is not overpaid and is under control and moveable but would create a huge backlash as he is the only pitcher that people now will come out to see game-after-game. Rodriguez is a curiosity, and you might pay to see him once, but Bumgarner can get you there and back.
There is no "sure thing" for a prospect: moving Bum for a promise is as likely to backfire as succeed, and his salary is NOT one of the problems.
There is such a thing as an offer you can't refuse, but it has to be better than good. Two top 100 prospects? Sure, and throw in Amy G.
It's really too late to "buy" a savior this year -- the existing lineup must show some life because, if you cannot bring in 3, you can't bring in a new team.
Posey is unmovable for many reasons not the least of which would be the certain collapse of the pitching staff for a few years: the Giants can win when Buster catches even when he doesn't hit, whereas other catchers, including Hundley have terrible won-loss records as starters. Posey does make it happen even when he fails at the plate. And the Giants need Posey to bring Joey Bart along.
Cueto, Samardzija, Melancon, and Longoria -- all long term BIG $$ acquisitions -- are unmoveable without paying someone to take them. None will return much WAR/$ for the Giants or anyone else. They are expendible but not tradeable.
Belt just cannot put it together -- would any GM bet on his spectacular and woefully uneven results? He has ONE year in his career with more than 150 games. Plus he has a HUGE fanbase -- the uproar would be deafening!
Crawford, Posey, and Bumgarner earn their big bucks.
If the Giants could move McCutchen or ANY of the over 30 guys (except Crawford and Posey), they should to open playing space for the next generation.
When Sabean says the Giants aren't sellers he's just being realistic -- other than Bumgarner, Crawford, and the the kids, there are no buyers.
Does Sabean, on letting go of any of his players, remind anyone of Henny Youngman's wife?
DeleteI'd go further on Cueto, Samardzija, Melancon and say they are completely untradeable unless the Giants eat an Absurd amount of those contracts. At least 80% on Cueto, at least 90% on Samardzija & Melancon. All huge, huge injury and effectiveness concerns going forward.
DeleteLongoria, with all the anti-over-30 sentiment in baseball now...probably have to eat 50-60% of that contract.
I don't fault what management has done. Given the situation: If will be incredibly difficult for the organization to reproduce the talent we currently have (Bum, Posey, Crawford, Belt) I see why the org took one last shot.
But, really, it's over this year, and likely for at least 3-4 more. Giants ownership won't have the cajones to do what needs to be done to accelerate the rebuild. They've got cap problems and minor-league system problems. So for now, it's a money decision: keep season tickets up for as long as possible. We're going to bleed out.
If we thought 05-08 were tough years, the next run may be longer and drier.