I'm currently researching a couple of posts on Bruce Bochy and Brian Sabean and their places in baseball history. That's gonna take little while. In the meantime, we haven't done a Q/A in awhile and folks seem to like them. Fire away. Ask anything baseball related. Giants, Farm, Draft, Fantasy. This is a community so feel to add your 1 cents worth to the answers.
Dr B
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Winning the WS 2x in three years - answers all questions.
ReplyDeleteAfter the 5 starters, it seems that the Giants are thin in the minor league in case one of the starters is injured (or traded). Is there anyone in the minor league system that you think can step up next year if needed? the same for Relief pitchers.
ReplyDeleteSurkamp, Heston and Kickham are the next-in0line guys in the minors. I see them (for now) as more emergency-type guys, so I would be OK with signing one or 2 Hacker/Petit type guys to fill the #6/#7 rolls imediately, but ready to be leapfrogged if needed by these three.
DeleteFor 2014, Stratton MAYBE by mid season and 2014 should have 2 of Stratton/Crick/Blackburn/Mejia/Agosta.
Pretty much agree with Calsnowkier here. Add Chris Gloor who is having success in the AFL.
DeleteRelievers: With Hembree pitching well in the AFL, I could see him helping by mid-season. Ditto Brett Bochy. Runzler seems to have lost is control issues, at least temporarily in the AFL, so he could be in the bullpen mix or get tried as a starter again for Fresno.
I would also add that the Giants have been good in recent years in picking up spare arms for AAA, they had Petit and Hacker last season, Vogelsong in 2011, I liked when they gave Andrew Miller a shot (but I think he bolted to the Red Sox), also Dontrelle Willis.
DeleteAnd I would add a guy that DrB turned me on to, Jacob Dunnington, in the relief corps, and I still like Dan Otero. Plus, a guy I think who could fly to the majors quickly as a reliever if he can stay healthy, is Josh Osich.
I am getting the feeling the key free agents will either be immediately signed up or they will be open to market forces that will beyond what the Giants could (and should) be paying for their services. Talking specifically about Affedlt, Pagan and Scutaro. Agent Ned's latest salvo of signing Brandon League for 3/22.5MM looks like a open invitation of "come get paid" to all 3. Given his history of the pursuit of Huff and Uribe, and the obvious strategic plan of weakening your enemy by taking key players, that's where my head is at. The problem is he is running out of roster space to put anybody. But he doesn't have any LHP for the pen of real note, so I think Affeldt is his #1 target. What is reasonable for Affeldt? I think its 2/12MM, the original Sabes Special. I hope for 2/12MM for Scutaro, but I expect more of a Huff type deal. And I hear all kinds of estimates for Pagan, I think its reasonable to overpay up to 3/30 with a 4th year option and buyout, hoping for something more like 3/24MM.
ReplyDeleteI'd like all 3 back, but I also think that they are not "key"free agents by any means, and their production can be replaced to some extent. But I am also hoping that the winning, the atmosphere and the culture of the team might make them think twice about maxing out their deals. But I'm also realistic, and I know this is a business where you have to cash in on your market before its gone. It should be interesting, I think there will be immediate action. Any thoughts?
Also, when is Sabean and Bochy's end of season presser? I think that would be an interesting live blog, the timing might be totally off though. They put it on video the past two years on the giants website.
How they handle the FA's will be interesting. Yeah, I'd like all 3 back, but not at any price. Affeldt just might be the one they can least do without.
DeleteDitto to what DrB said. You make great points Shankbone, but I just don't see Scutaro getting a $10M per year deal like Huff. Huff had done that in two of his last three seasons, whereas Scutaro's good stretch with the Giants appear more to be make up for how poorly he played earlier in the season, a balancing of the BABIP gods.
DeleteI'm hoping the intangibles will keep Scutaro and Pagan around for fair salaries. Affeldt already knows about it, but he said openly that he needs to take care of his family. So I don't see how we are going to keep him, there will be somebody giving him League-type money, whereas the Giants probably will offer 2 years, $12M.
Scutaro and Pagan said that they wanted to sign during this exclusive period, and the Giants are rarely cheap, so I would expect both to sign before Nov. 2nd, but wouldn't be surprised if they at least dip their toes into free agency, just so see what they are worth.
yeah, I've been waiting for their first post-season presser, it is usually the day after the season ended, but there was none on Monday nor is there one scheduled for today. Hopefully they are using the time to sign up their free agents during the exclusive negotiating period and then they can tell us during the presser that they signed the three of them for fair contracts.
Oh, and the Blue Jays dfa'd Scott Cousins today.
ReplyDeleteSounds like Scott Cousins has had some rough things happen in his life. He definitely made a mistake when he took out Buster Posey. Not sure that should be held against him forever. He was a borderline MLB player at best and I'm thinking he may have some psychlogical issues stemming from the collision that may hold him back permanently. Let that be a lesson to other hungry young guns out there. You don't go taking out another team's star player who is adored by everybody and can do no wrong(I mean that literally).
DeleteDon't really care about him, but I'll take bad news about him any day. He never truly apologized for his unethical hit (it was legal, but unethical, too bad he and many other baseball people can't see that). There should never be a case where a player takes out the catcher when the catcher is not even at home plate. Do like all other sane players (like the Giants have done just in recent years, Ishikawa, Panda (twice!!), dodging the tag and scoring anyway).
DeleteThat should have been his first thought, if he didn't think that he could score, he shouldn't have been running in the first place. He ran anyway with the thought of crashing into Posey to jar the ball loose, showing that he expected to be out (and therefore should not have been running). He and his scummy agent who defended his actions can both find jobs out of baseball, we don't need people like them in the game.
I might have some understanding if it was, say, the run that wins the division, playoff series, or World Series (though I would still not condone it), but it was a lousy game in the middle of May with no real consequence other than he just knocked the Giants chances of winning that season into the same hospital and recovery room. Thanks boyhood Giants "fan".
How do you see Francisco Peguero in the Giants plans for the future?
ReplyDeleteI think it might depend on what happens with Pagan and his free agency. If Pagan ends up leaving and the Giants cannot land, say, Michael Bourn, I could see Peguero being in the mix for a 25 man roster spot out of spring training. I think he actually impressed the Giants while he was up this year.
DeleteThat sounds about right to me too. I was very impressed with his ability to steal bases, that would boost our speed on our bench greatly, and he's not that bad a hitter, won't know how he does until he gets some playing time up here.
DeleteNow that the season is over...what do we do with Melky? I was thinking 1 year for 3-4 million with the giants. who would sign him besides the giants? he's full of ???? Was his last 2 seasons due to PEDs or was it because he's at his prime? Whomever gets him will get a bargain of player I'm guessing and there's no better place than sf to rebuild his rep where he is loved.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how much Melky is loved in SF at this point. Since I personally believe that the effects of PED's are way overblown, I think Melky will perform just fine as long as he continues to work out, and avoid that other PED, alcohol. It will be interesting to see where Melky ends up. Personally, I think he will be the bargain of this offseason and hope the Giants are open to bringing him back.
DeleteI agree with DrB, PEDs don't really help to that degree, so he should be pretty good for whoever he signs with.
DeleteI think he's our backup if Pagan does not sign with us, and the more I hear, the more I'm afraid that he's gone. I think Melky will not sign with anyone until late, so we got time to pursue Pagan and still get Melky later, as a redemption project.
The reason I believe it is because both Schulman and Baggerly has been reporting that the Giants insiders are saying that management is becoming more open to bringing him back. Of course, that could be a purposefully leaked stance so that should Melky and his agent argue that he was being punished twice for the same crime, since he's already gone through the 50 game suspension, and decide to sue if the team don't sign him and still look like they need him, the Giants could point to the leaks as a reflection of their true feelings. Still, I think that there is enough smoke that I think there is a fire there, that the Giants are open to bringing him back as a bargain, if necessary.
While watching the parade and speeches today, one thing occurred to me which made me doubt he would be back...
ReplyDeleteThe ring ceremony next season.
How awkward would it be for him to e present for that. They really have tried to keep his involvement with the 2012 season separate from the WS win, and having him involved in the ceremony would throw the whole thing in everyone's face.
Just my opinion, but that is a pretty poor reason not to bring him back if the price is right.
DeleteHaving said that, I honestly don't think Melky is going to be back. The Giants are very image conscious, and man, is it every working for them?! I don't think it's the PED thing so much as the team has made his absence a rallying point. If they bring him back, it looks like they think they need him to keep winning which could destroy the very motivation that drove them to win it all.
DeleteDr. B,
ReplyDeleteI was simply amazed by the pitching I saw in the final 7 games. Zito, Vogelsong simply outperformed their regular seasons and gave the team outstanding innings. Bumgarner was great too but even then it might have been different had the Tigers' 3rd base coach not helped us out by sending Prince Fielder. Do you have any thoughts about why we got such great pitching toward the end of the season? Is it a different approach by Rags or Tidrow?
To me it was very clear that MadBum was suffering greatly from a fatigued shoulder after pitching a long season, his extreme youth and use the past 2 years. The fatigue is what caused his arm slot to drop and his breaking pitches to flatten out. Giving him those 10 or so days rest did wonders and was a key move by Bochy and co.
DeleteIf you ask me, Zito has reinvented himself, as many a pitching coach/guru said he would. I expect that from here forward, when he can find his rhythm we're going to see 2012 Postseason Zito much more than 2007-2011 Zito. I think his ability to find himself at that crucial time put a lot of energy in the clubhouse and guys will put a lot of runs on the board for him next year.
RainBall
The plain fact of the matter is that our pitching rotation is capable of a string of great pitching. They had actually been off during the Reds series and early in the Cards, throwing a number of disaster starts. It could be that the team had clinched too early and lost that adrenaline that they needed and maybe it took them about a week to get back into playing shape.
DeleteBut in any case, this team is very capable of tossing out a string of great dominating starts, they were doing it during the season, mostly, and they did it at the very end.
But to RainBull's point, I think Madison (he hates that nickname, FYI) was tired from something, all that was listed was good. And the rest did him a world of good, allowing him to repeat his good mechanics well enough to win in the World Series.
I think that Zito has reinvented himself to an extent, mainly because his velocity is so down that previously he could not win like that, but now he can. Zito has actually been a good pitcher for us most seasons. He just had that really bad first impression, particularly in season 2, and of course that huge contract. But he has actually been pretty good from 2009 to 2012, particularly in stretches, before the wheel falls off the cart and he needs to regroup again (2011, I blame his car accident, if you look at his individual games, he started out pitching great, like in the playoffs, before his body failed him and he pitched horribly for a couple of games, before DLing). In 2010, he had a great ERA, mid-3's, until he had that bad stretch at the very end, which resulted in him being left off the playoff rosters, for example. He has been very good for us in long stretches, but unfortunately for him, there will always be that short but very bad stretch where he gets beat like a dirty rug and his ERA soars.
Well, I think it starts with the pitchers and it's not like these guys have never pitched well before. They all had it in them. I think Rags and Mark Gardner are very good pitching coaches who are quick to identify problems and have concrete ideas for fixing them. I think Bruce Bochy is a near genius at managing pitching. He knew when one guy needed to skip a start, when another guy needed to go to the bullpen, when one guy needed to be pulled from the game after 2.2 IP, and another could be trusted to go 7. He was able to maintain a rested pitching staff throughout the postseason so that they were actually fresher and stronger by the end of World Series than when the postseason started.
DeleteIf there was one thing that distinguished Bochy from the other postseason managers above all others, it was how he nursed his pitching staff back to full strength all while winning 7 elimination games in the playoffs.
I would love their main FAs back, but I honestly think Affeldt will go somewhere else. He said he wants a multi year deal, and we have a fair amount of talent to pay him $5mm for 2-3 years, unless we up payroll. I'd rather spend that money on Pagan, and to a lesser extent on Scutaro for 1-2 year deal holding for (please, please, please) Panik. Especially with Runzler finding his control, I think Affeldt is odd man out.
ReplyDeleteInteresting issue will be where Hembree and Wilson fit in. While I agree Hembree might be a mid season guy, I wonder if they will ditch Mota (who didn't see a lot of time) and Hensley, for Hembree and Wilson. Certainly Mota for Wilson is very possible.
I do think Pegs is in the mix. Even if we sign Melky and Pagan, we need 5 OFs likely. So, Blanco is one guy (and probably brought back cheap), so Kleishnick and Pegs fight out the last spot. If we don't sign another LF, I could see both of them maybe making the team to ease them in. I would like to see Pegs go head to head with Blanco since I think the former has a ton more upside too.
As for Melky, I get that 'roids may be overstated. However, I also think the Giants may have an image issue (or at least management may be sensitive to it), with both Mota and Melky. Yeah, we know Mota was cough syrup (pretty lame to kick a guy out for that, but whatever) but image is what other people think not what is reality. Following on the heals of Bonds, certainly a top 5 offender, signing Melky to give him a second chance, no matter how well intended, may just be too hard to swallow especially given he did the whole faux web site thing. Yeah, he stepped up on the batting title, but I think too little too late.
PiLamBear
Good points and thoughts. I think that they will dump Mota, ostensibly for performance but I think his suspension didn't help. But I could be wrong, Bochy did use him in a lot of games down the stretch and he was on the playoff rosters, but after he got beat up, he wasn't used much.
DeleteI think Hensley will be invited to compete for a spot with Hembree and Wilson. Mota might get another minor league deal with the team though, and compete too, but I think the Giants are ready to move on, he'll be 39 next season I think. Plus, the Giants probably wants to keep a spot or two open for Hembree, Wilson, Otero, Runzler, and Hensley competing for the spot.
I think that Blanco will be a starting OF, and that the Giants will sign one of Pagan (first choice) or Melky (second choice). Personally, I'm liking Shankbone's idea of signing Torii Hunter if Pagan falls through, but in any case, Blanco will get the chance to win a starting position, that is the way the Giants have operated in recent years, keeping a spot open for young players like Blanco, Peguero, and Kieschnick to battle for a spot, with the other taking a spot on the bench. And I expect Blanco to win that spot.
I didn't think that the Giants would re-sign Melky because of the image problem, but the media has been reporting internal leaked sentiments that the Giants would be open to bringing him back in 2013. Now, it could just be CYA in case Melky's agent decides to sue for double penalty, if the Giants pass on him due solely to the drug usage, but I think there is enough smoke that there is something to it, not just a CYA move.
Honestly, we won with Blanco in left, Pagan in CF, and Pence in RF. If the Giants can resign Pagan, they can legitimately say that they have no space for Melky, Blanco performed well for us, and we have all the hitters we need, thanks for asking. And I'm OK with that.
But I agree with DrB, PED use was not what caused him to hit well, as steroids is not proven to do that (and one famous saber says it is all bunk, steroids do NOT help). So he should hit well for whoever signs him, and since he'll be on the cheap, why not the Giants? So I go back and forth on that, but I don't like the image hit they will take, so if they can move on without him, great, but if they feel the need to bring him back, I'm OK with that too.
I'm all about the "W" and with all the testing that Melky is sure to get whereever he goes, nobody can claim he's getting away with murder if he hits well.
my point about Melky pre-PED bust was he was about to fail out of baseball. He was the polar opposite of Johnny Sanchez, because he got himself into shape, and did something about it. Remember much adoo about his BABIP which was 330 instead of his career 297 before the year started? Then his BABIP was off the chart, up to 387 or something when he finished up.
DeleteHis power is gap, he's not going to hit many HRs. He really is a corner OF, not a CF, and as such he is sort of a tweener. I don't know...
I think you have to take those KC numbers with a grain of salt, and his SF #s with a huge grain of salt. I differ a bit on PED use opinion from you and the doc. I think it aids with workout recovery, and with staying on the field. It gives a tremendous feeling of confidence. With Melky, he quit his boozing, which is another factor. And he has a lot of talent. So its a confusing jumble. I could see him as a 280 gap hitter with not much power, if that BABIP goes back to normal levels. But maybe he can stretch it out, being in the best shape of his life, naturally.
I'm glad the Gints are distancing themselves, and that parade was a big fat clue - no Barry Bonds, no Melky. Unfair or not, the Giants are known for PEDs. They have to distance themselves. Cost us a draft pick! Cost us a good player. But I don't think he is a great player without PEDs. At the beginning of the year I liked Pagan better, and hedged on Melky. I'm hedging again, but I think the Gints are making the right move. Way too much BABIP noise, and not enough power.
I'm not sure there was ever a question in all this so I'll let these excellent comments stand on their own.
DeleteWhat can we expect from Timmy next year?
ReplyDeleteWith a re-born Lincecum, this starting rotation is more likely to put up numbers that will rank among the very top few. It will be in 2013 and was capable in 2012, and did well but not quite well enough to fulfill its potential.
I believe if a couple from Runzler/Hembree/Wilson/Bochy Jr come through in 2013, even without Affeldt (though I hope he will be back, and if not, perhaps Sabean will bring in reasonably quality veteran reliever(s) for competition), the pen can be better (don't know if it will be dominant - that requires a healthy Wilson and a ready Hembree) as well.
THE QUESTION of the offseason. And anybody who knows...
DeleteDoes Timmy consult with the Gints pitching staff? How about his dad? Can the Giants convince him to hire a proper nutritionist and trainer? They ARE paying him 22MM next year. He is playing for a contract. Personally I think its about 90% mental, including personal issues, and 10% physical but he needs to pay attention to that physical as well. And get a new plan because hitters have adjusted to his dirtball.
I think that DrB hit the nail on the head saying that it was his yo-yo-ing weight that did him in this season. First, it upset his delicate mechanics early on, and killed his confidence, I think he needs that chip on his shoulder to help. Once he got healthy and his mind straight during the All-Star break, he pitched well, had a 3.03 ERA in the second half until his last two starts, when his lack of stamina finally kicked in and he needed more rest to pitch like he can. That's why relieving 2-3 innings at a time worked for him, and why he had that bad start, he didn't get enough rest, but then he did well again, pitching a little at a time.
DeleteI think it also helped him in that he thinks too much as a pitcher, so when he starts, he has all that time to build up his thoughts and every thing, but as a reliever, he just has to be a gunslinger and jump in and dominate.
I don't expect a Cy Young Timmy, but I expect him to get into good shape this off-season, hopefully with the help of a professional trainer and dietician, and he'll give us something similar to that 3.03 ERA he had in the second half until his last two starts, which were disaster starts. I would take that in a heartbeat.
While I hope Affeldt returns, after that LAD deal with League, I am resigned to losing him to the highest bidder, who might be LAD (I hope not, but it is a business). Hopefully Seattle signs him up, he grew up in Washington, so he's probably a Seattle fan.
I think the bullpen can be dominant with Romo, Lopez, and Casilla manning the key roles. I think Kontos is ready for the spotlight there, replacing Affeldt, as he was actually great vs. LHB, even better than Affeldt. I think Runzler and Mijares can help man the fort in the middle innings to set-up. That leave one spot open for Wilson, Hembree, Bochy, Hensley, and usually a free agent reliever the Giants like to bring in.
If I had to bet, I would say we'll see Timmy come back and have a strong season next year. I do think he needs to get a better nutrition and conditioning plan. His weight needs to be somewhere between where it was last year and where it was this year. At the same time, he needs to do some strengthening exercises rather than just cardio/aerobic.
DeleteHe also needs to understand that NL hitters are onto his dirtballs and he is not going to get them to chase it like the Tigers did in the WS.
Not a good start to the offseason IMO. From Baggs: SAN FRANCISCO – The Giants do not plan to make a qualifying offer to any of their free agents by the 2 p.m. deadline on Friday, which means they would not receive draft pick compensation in the event Angel Pagan or Jeremy Affeldt signs with another club.
ReplyDeletePagan should be offered a qualifying offer. Overpaying on a one year deal is completely worth it to get a draft pick if he walks.
I don't know what Affeldt would get, but as I understand it the qualifying offers are much higher right now. I think for Pence (who I assume gets the same as Pagan) its well over $13mm, and all it does is get you locked up in a one year deal and the right for a draft choice. It also has severe consequences for the other team signing him.
DeleteNot knowing the politics, is it possible they don't want a qualifying deal because they believe either they do a multi year deal or give Pagan the option (rather than basically forcing him to do a one year deal)? In other words, I'm not sure it is necessarily bad not to offer it when you recognize you can only do so much and you're trying not to screw someone.
Scutaro just doesn't deserve that kind of money at his age. Maybe Affeldt does, but again I'm wondering if that as much to do right by him to see if he can get $6mm for 3 years when we'd only give him 1 given the strength of our pen and minors.
PiLamBear
The qualifying offer is 13.3MM. The only realistic offer is to Pagan. He can reject it in search of a better offer, and the giants can still negotiate for his services. In that scenario, they have depressed his value to other teams (they give up a first round draft pick) and protected themselves, at the risk of an overpay.
DeletePence is a different scenario. He is under arbitration control, his 4th and final time, and the estimate of that is about 13.8MM. The giants can negotiate a multi year deal, cut him loose or negotiate/go to arbitration.
I agree, no way are Affeldt or Scutaro worth a 13.3MM qualifying offer. And maybe there are some politics involved. Personally I find this too cautious. I worry more about years than dollar amounts in contracts.
The only Giants FA they might consider giving a qualifying offer to at $13.3 M X 1 year would be Pagan. Personally I would do it then try to negotiate a longer term contract at a lower yearly rate, and take the draft pick if he ends up signing elsewhere. If he calls the bluff and accepts the 1 year offer, it's only 1 year and within the value of the production he put up this year. It's admittedly a borderline call, though, and I can see why the Giants don't want to do that.
DeleteBlanco can play CF, gives you a higher OBP, just as many or more SB's and even gives you occasional power for a fraction of the price of that qualifying offer. Giants might be ahead to make Blanco the starting CF and acquire a LF with more pop in his bat.
Adrianza - I read that he was the best defensive shortstop we had in the system when Crawford was still a minor leaguer.
ReplyDeleteWe know what Crawford can do.
Can Adrianza be better than that?
I think the rep is that Adrianza has the better range, Crawford the better arm. Switch hitting ss, they dont grow on trees. The knock on ehire is very similar to our buddy manny burriss, overpowered by upper level pitching, not enough strength.
DeleteAgree with Shankbone. Crawford is going to make more amazing plays and has the stronger arm, but Adrianza covers more ground and makes it look easy.
DeleteI hope Adrianza can improve his hitting enough so we can another 'we have too many quality players at the position' problem.
DeleteCan't have enough of those.
Do you think the Giants sign a free agent to play LF in 2013? I have read about Ichiro and Swisher as being possible targets. Over a full season the Giants will need some HR pop from their corner OF positions which is why I think Swisher makes some sense. I just hope they don't sign him for more than 3 years.
ReplyDeleteSee my answer re. Pagan and the qualifying offers above. Yes, I think the Giants could go after a LF with some pop either by FA or trade.
DeleteIf they are looking for somebody on the cheap, they could do worse than Jonny Gomes.
Last off-season, Sabean did a lot of things right, without going the expensive free-agent route -
DeleteBlanco
Arias
Kontos
Melky
Pagan
I think it's not too much for him to say he makes one, two or more value finds to replace whomever we lose this year. And we need to pull off more of those if we expect to compete year in year out - that and drafting well. It also says that there are a lot of good players beyond those well-known names people mention.
i like gomes...he has spunk
Deletenot clear why beane is letting him walk
gomes and pence would make for a very entertaining clubhouse...the beat writers would love it
cant believe that jenkins really thought that sabean doesnt use metrics...most of sabean's dumpster dives fit the profile. blanco is a sabermatricians dream player, "he gets on base"
sabean and tidrow pride themselves on getting undervalued arms for the pen...which is why the giants have one of the deepest pens in the majors
the org currently has a great balance between traditional scouting and the use of metrics
add to that some of the greatest advance scouts and a 21st century marketing model, and you have the makings of a true dynasty...not one that wins the ws every other year, but one that puts a great product on the field, entertains the fan and is a part of the community....its willie playing stickball with the kids...on twitter
bacci
Bacci,
DeleteExactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I think it's possible that you could want to pick up a player like Blanco without having ever heard of sabermetrics. Players like Blanco have always played in MLB from its beginning.
DeleteIt's true the Giants are wise enough to not reject anything that might help. We should welcome all the following
1. traditional scouting
2. better connection to the health care industry
3. stats
With respect to #2, I believe one can gain advantage over one's competitors if one's better at evaluating post-injury players who try to come back or injury prone players who they might considering drafting/signing/trading for. I don't know who is really the leader in this field among the major league teams.
Here, we might including evaluations about a prospect's psychological and spiritual makeup as well. For example, you hate to lose a player who finds more fulfillment in priesthood than baseball.
That's the odd thing, why didn't Blanco get much interest? Especially by the A's, Mr. OBP Moneyball? Even as a part time player, he clearly had a superior OBP, his only issue appeared to be power, but he looked great as an average OBP leadoff guy with speed but low power, but that works in the Giants lineup, we have the pitching to make up for that.
Delete