The Hot Stove started percolating today with a major trade and a mid-range FA signing.
The Marlins officially started their tear down by trading 2B Dee Gordon and his contract to the Seattle Mariners for 3 relatively unexciting prospects while sending $1 M in international bonus pool money back along with Gordon to the Mariners. Gordon bounced back last year from a rough 2016 in which he missed 50 games with a PED suspension and performed poorly after returning. His 2017 stat line: .308/.341/.375, 9 3B, 2 HR, 60 SB, fWAR= 3.3. He has posted 12.4 fWAR over the past 4 seasons in spite of the down year in the midst of that. The Mariners already have Robinson Cano at 2B and plan to use Gordon as their CF. The Mariners obviously believe the key to signing Shohei Ohtani is being able to offer him the largest signing bonus. They have almost frantically acquired additional pool money with each of their trades and are now in position to offer him the largest signing bonus.
This is a sad day for the Marlins. The current ownership group may have a long range plan to build a competitive team at some point in the future, but it could take a good long time because their farm system is one of the worst in baseball and they seem to be much more intent on shedding payroll than in acquiring top prospects in their trades. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. Even Jeffrey Loria wasn't THIS bad! Hard to believe MLB allowed these clowns to buy the Marlins when they obviously believe they can't afford to field a competitive MLB team. It's not even like Gordon is all that expensive being owed $38 M over the next 3 seasons with a team option for $14 M in 2021.
One other possible angle to this could be the Marlins might have just sent a very loud message to Giancarlo Stanton reinforcing their threat to strip the team around him if he sticks to his no-trade clause and vetoes all trades. At any rate, the Mariners are the beneficiaries of the unfolding disaster in Miami.
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The Cubs signed one of my favorite free agents from this year's class, Tyler Chatwood. Chatwood's overall numbers don't look so hot until you take a look at his splits and see he had a sub-4.00 ERA away from Coors Field. He has always been particularly effective against the Giants and I was hoping the Giants would stay true to form and go after a player who has dominated them. There are risks that come with Chatwood. He's a pitcher, after all, and he has a history of Tommy John surgery. Maybe the splits are a sample size aberration. He does still throw his FB in the mid-90's with one of the highest spin rates in the major league. The signing price was 3 yr/$38 M with some incentives. That's a bit more than he was projected to get as a FA, but in the ballpark. This could end up being a great deal for the Cubs and Chatwood is a breakout candidate for 2018. Of course, he would have been an even bigger breakout candidate if he was going to pitch half his games in San Francisco, but too late now.
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Hey Doc,
ReplyDeleteJust read, that Staton add the Yankees again, and now the Astros to his list of disired locations. This Staton thing is a headache. I really think the Giants should start looking elsewhere. I really think that if he came SF he would opt out in 2 years, or really be miserable playing in SF. Your thoughts.
Mike
If this is true, it looks like Stanton places a very high priority on winning a ring in the next 3 years and doesn't think it is likely in SF. Or, he may be trying to get the either the Giants or Cardinals to sweeten his contract, which is already pretty darn sweet.
DeleteYes, too late now on Chatwood, could have won 15+ games for SF. And there went speedy centerfielder #1 hitter Dee Murray. I'm sure SF could have coughed up three average prospects for him! And now Ken Rosenthal reports that Stanton is not wowed by SF or StL, wants to wait for the Dodgers or Yankees to propose something...?
ReplyDeleteHey! A fellow Elton John fan! Yeah, hate to say it, but trading for Dee Gordon and moving him from 2B to CF requires a bit more out-of-the-box thinking than this Giants management team seems capable of.
DeleteI guess you can't blame Stanton for holding out for what he really wants when he has the opportunity, but I hate to see the trend of dictating destinations to "super teams" like we've seen in basket ball for decades now move into baseball. Of course, none of this would be even possible if the Marlins had competent ownership right now.
Murray...Gordon...I'm too old to keep up with this! Also a child of Bat Day at Candlestick in the 60s. But since the Giants were right there with Marlins GM for all the possibilities it seems strange they wouldn't have spotted the potential. Like being at the neighbours moving sale and only looking at the really shiny thing and missing all the deals laying around...the good thing about when the Dodgers build a superteam is when the Giants beat them series after series...hope those days aren't gone
DeleteWhy would Miami try to trade Stanton to teams that were reportedly not on his list of teams he would approve a trade to? Stanton could come out of this looking like a villain to Giants and Cards fan bases, which isn't really fair to him. I think Giants should move on if not resolved by start of winter meetings.
ReplyDeleteLG
Players waive their no-trade clauses all the time for any number of reasons, mostly why would they want to stay with a team that does not want them anymore? Also, no-trade clauses are usually more for leverage to renegotiate a contract than to block trades.
DeleteI see others have heard/read that SF and St. Louis are not on Stanton's list. Personally, I think the Giants just need to move on. Bring up Duggar. Bring up Beede and/or Gregario. Bring up Shaw. Clean up the roster. Clean up the salaries because, right now, we have a projected $187 million dollar in player salary (Cots Contracts) for 2018, not including players in arbitration.
ReplyDeleteIt seems Stanton doesn't want to approve a trade to SF. If he hates the idea of coming here so much, why should the Giants put so much effort into a guy who'll probably opt out if he shows up? Giants need to turn to Plan B.
ReplyDeleteMossesAD, I think that shaw,Beede,and the other players that you mentioned are marginal players,at best. That's why it doesn't bother me that we trade all the players mentioned above. It also a reason to be really excited about Ramos, and possibly the #2 pick in the MLB draft in june, who I hope is a positional player, that we can pair with Ramos, if he is around.
ReplyDeleteAh, 'prospect rankings.' Yes. Pederson was called up for a cup of coffee as the 'next hot thing' in 2014. After the Dodgers traded Matt Kemp in December 2014 to clear space for him in the OF. Meanwhile, Baseball America named him the #8 MLB prospect in 2015, and MLB.com ranked him the 13th-best prospect in baseball, and the #2 outfield prospect, going into the 2015 season.
DeleteIn short, everyone was on his bandwagon. So far his line, since 2014, is:
.222 BA, .345 OBP, .435 SLG & a .780 OPS. The hype was so great he was on the All-Star team in 2015 (which he totally didn't deserve). Meanwhile Parker is hardly considered an 'elite prospect:' In fact, with his career (MLB) .257 BA, .335 OBP, .456 SLG & .791 OPS he's not looking like any kind of answer at all.
My point is this, until you bring them up, you just don't know. Many a 'great' prospect has fallen hard at the big leagues. Many a 'marginal prospect,' like Brandon Crawford (no hit, glove-only SS) has had it click and has thrived. You just don't know until you try.
I for one am firmly in the minority and am happy we are not doing this. I don't know that we should assume Arroyo is marginal (he's a top 100). Also, it would leave a huge hole at 3b (which we might have but we know we WOULD have). I'm also not a fan of dealing Ramos. I think most teams that try to build baseball teams through a splash end up falling on their face. Not saying it doesn't help. I just think we have too many holes. Build from within. Let's find out if Arroyo can play 3b. Let's see who we got at LF/CF. Plus we have a ton of guys coming up who play OF. Yeah, maybe they're not Stanton, but he's not going to be the savior IMHO and really could set us back. Also not ready to assume Beede isn't going to be good. Just me. I'm a homer.
ReplyDeleteIs being reported by CAA Baseball that Ohtani will sign with the Angels. Rough start to the offseason for the Giants. Id love to see the Giants revisit the Jackie Bradley Jr of the Red Sox rumor from earlier this offseason.
ReplyDeleteCoach B
Multiple sources reporting that Ohtani has agreed to a deal with the Angels. Stanton has said that the Giants and Cards are out. Not sure where that leaves us.
ReplyDeleteNo other great options out there to improve the outfield significantly.
Shohei Otani is teaming up with Mike Trout
ReplyDeleteJ(SF)
There's still hope - lets go with defensive speed and gap hitter in CF (Bradley/Dyson/Duggar), speed and gap hitter at 3B (Nunez/Moustakas/Frazier), power in RF (Bruce/Parker), platoon Span/Pence/Slater (LF) Slater 4th OF - need a backup catcher and let's go! Rotation of Bumgarner Cueto, Samardjiza, Stratton, Blach (hoped for Chatwood) and push Moore to long relief (hoped for Petit) - maybe teach Bochy to try a bunt every now and then. You don't need a big stud to put fans in seats, you need to WIN GAMES - we've all loved the Giants the most when they were a pitching/defense team that shut down all these high-priced star teams.
ReplyDelete"Giants a pitching/defense team"
ReplyDeleteExactly right.
That has, and always will be the winning strategy.