Ryan Vogelsong had a successful and healthy spring debut and Pablo Sandoval had a huge day at the plate capped by a walk-off 2 run HR. Key Lines:
Melky Cabrera- 1 for 3, 3B. BA= .380. Melky keeps raking.
Pablo Sandoval- 3 for 5, 2B, HR(3). BA= .236. Pablo's walkoff was against a very good pitcher, Greg Holland, who many people think should be the Royals closer.
Ryan Theriot- 0 for 1. BA= .194. Theriot started the game at SS but had to come out early due to getting hit in the nose by an errant pickoff throw from Vogelsong. Sounds like there was blood everywhere!
Joaquin Arias- 2 for 2, BB. BA= .237. Arias used Theriot's injury to enhance his own chances of winning a roster spot.
Ryan Vogelsong- 2.2 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 0 BB, 2 K's. ERA= 3.38. Vogey reportedly had his FB up to 93 MPH and looked sharp. Hopefully he just needs to ramp up his innings to get his stamina up.
Affledt(2.89), Wilson(0.00), Lopez(3.00), Hensley(3.24) and Jean Machi(2.25) all pitched a scoreless inning apiece. Romo(4.50) allowed an ER in 1 IP,
Eric Surkamp came up with a sore arm after his last start. An MRI today revealed a flexor tendon strain. He'll be shut down for 2 weeks.
The Giants released Ramon Ortiz and reassigned Andrew Kown, Wlmin Rodriguez, Brian Burres and Shane Loux to minor league camp.
Tim Lincecum faces the Angels tomorrow in Scottdale.
Around the League:
Dustin Ackley tripled and homered against the Yomiuri Giants in Japan.
Jon Lester had a dominant start against the Phillies: 7 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 10 K's.
Dee Gordon had a single and walk and stole his 9'th and 10'th bases of the spring vs the ChiSox.
Kendry Morales went 3 for 4 and is hitting .615 on the spring in a very small sample size.
Garrett Richards' bid to become the Angels' #5 starter suffered a setback: 5.1 IP, 7 H, 6 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 5 K's.
Matt Wieters continued his hot hitting going 3 for 4 with a double to raise his spring BA to .282.
Eric Bedard pitched well in a losing cause: 6 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 5 K's.
Joe Nathan lowered his spring ERA to 12.00 with a perfect inning with 2 K's.
It looks like Travis Ishikawa has landed a roster spot with the BrewCrew as he went 2 for 4 with a double and raised his spring slash line to .286/.388/.500.
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couldnt be happier for ti. if his name goes on the 25, im giving one huge standing O
ReplyDeleteim worried about surkamp...an arm is an arm.
man, vogie is the nicest guy in the world, but i sure as heck wouldnt bug him on game day...and he doesnt care who he throws to
and thanks for working hard, but i think gordon is still with the bums. giants need to get out those hoses when he comes to town
Gordon is on my fantasy team, so you may be hearing a bit more about him from me than you want to.
DeleteGiants torture is back...no runs, no runs, no runs, Melky hits a triple w/1 out and they can't get him home, opposing pitcher looking great, Giants pitchers getting Cained, BUT the 2012 Giants got some Panda mojo and came back to win it in the ninth. All is good.
ReplyDeleteThis is my concern, lots of games much like last year that are close down to the wire and will take walk offs like last night to win. Holland was a late round pick for me so hopefully the HR from Panda didn't hurt his chances of being closer. Blanco is the guy to me that could add some depth to the starting lineup and maybe put Pagan in a more comfortable role as the 2 hole hitter or even farther down. I like Pagan a lot but am not sold on him being the leadoff hitter. I was listening to an interview on KNBR with a scout from the Mets who said that Pagan doesn't like to leadoff but could do it in a pinch. Nate needed to have a perfect spring and so far it hasn't been so I have no problem with him coming off the bench in favor of Blanco who could leadoff and possibly make the defense even better. As for the rest of the lineup, I have no problem leaving Craw at SS even when he drops below the mendoza but the pressure needs to be on guys like Huff, Melky, Pagan, and whoever plays 2B. I would go so far as to stick Buster at 2B at some point if it becomes an offensive hole and let Sanchez catch and Belt and Pill man 1B. At some point, defense needs to take a back seat for offense in some cases and C and 2B are acceptable positions to lean towards offense if the team is struggling to score runs.
ReplyDeleteP-Duk I was joking, sort of. Can't count on walk-off wins as a strategy. The Giants won in 2010 with an incredible HR streak (Burrell, Huff, Uribe, Ross and finally Renteria) and phenomenal pitching. 2011 not so much - the HR hitting vets failed to produce and injuries killed them.
DeleteNow maybe we are seeing the emergence of a real Giants team - built on pitching (-Zito), speed and defense. Love the game Blanco and Melky have brought this spring. How many games have they scored the Giants first run by getting on, moving up/stealing a base and scoring. That first run is huge to the Giants pitching - get ahead, relax, pound the strike zone and pitch to contact (with a defense behind you). Timmy and other pitchers have mentioned how nice it is this spring to have Craw/Arias/Pablo/Belt/Pagan/Melky/Nate/Blanco behind them and Posey at the dish.
Sign Cain dammit!!!
Surkamp looked great so far, glad its a tweak. Go slow young Eric, looks like we'll need you sooner than later.
ReplyDeleteI watched a bit of the Bedard start. He didn't look too bad. Dare I say, a perfect low risk 5th starter type?
Pato, you are right, we are back where we started with the concerns - 5th starter, middle infield, scoring enough runs. Here's the bold prediction though: Belt is going to get a shot. Right away. They have plenty of candidates at 2B, maybe somebody steps up. It seems like we have a lot of chaos and drama going into the season, but the opportunity is there, with the way Nate has been scuffling, Belt should get the look to start. And despite the CW on this issue, no major league team that is contending is going to just leave him in there for 2 months. He will need to seize the brass ring. Is he up to it?
Another thing that pisses me off that doesn't seem to affect you guys as much is the excuses the Giants tend to use for why or why they didn't address personnel issues. We traded our best pitching prospect for Beltran last year and some Giants fans weren't too thrilled to lose Wheeler but the impression that management gave was that it wouldn't be a rental (can't tell you how many times Sabes has said he wouldn't trade for a rental). Then when they don't resign Beltran they tell us that our big offseason additions were getting Posey and Sanchez back.
ReplyDeleteSo not only did they not resign Beltran making the trade for him questionable, but they didn't address MI in anticipation that Sanchez may never be back. The strategy of doing the bare minimum and then being surprised when things happen like Sanchez's injury being more severe then they thought makes it seem like they have no back up plan. Kind of like in fantasy baseball when you wait to draft MI and end up with Clint Barmes as your starting SS.
It is time for some accountability. I don't mean now before they even play a game but as I mentioned several months ago, if we don't make the playoffs this year I think they need to take a serious look at Sabes and whether he has run his course here. I get tired of excuses and this year is lining up to have a few of them like how they could have never predicted that Sanchez won't be back or that there was no way to tell that Theriot was done or that Nate wasn't going to cut it or that Zito wouldn't bounce back or that no matter what, Huff will start at 1B or my favorite excuse that will finally make Shankbone a Sabes hater.... we couldn't resign Cain because he just didn't want to be here!!!!
That should be the nail in the coffin for most of you guys who have backed Sabes over the last year or two when I have brought up reasons to be skeptical. OGC, Shank, and Dr. B, part of your faith in Sabes has been that he will keep the pitching intact and all of his other moves are acceptable as long as that happens. If Cain doesn't resign and we lose him after this year essentially getting nothing in return for him, and worse yet, he signs with the Dodgers (give me decent odds and I will put money on this happening), what will be your opinions then?
We will suck then. 2010 will be a mirage and we will be back to Sabes trying to make a FA vet moves, when we had the homegrown talent in our hands.
DeleteThe good is we haven't signed a Zito/Rowand contact since then and the mistakes (Huff) have been two year and done deals.
Pato,
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with you on what you are saying about Sabean. Yes we gave up Wheeler for Beltran. But at least Sabean showed he is willing to cut his losses and do what is best for the team. I for one would rather see Belt get 600 PA's over Beltran clogging up this great defense.
How many GM's have made as many quality moves as Sabean has? Last year we had Vogelsong. This year, Blanco maybe? People went crazy about the Freddy Sanchez trade. When on the field, Sanch has played All-Star caliber 2nd-base.
Catcher: The Giants have quietly built up in my opinion the strongest core of catchers in a single organization for as long as I can remember. Posey could already be one of the top catchers in the league. Hector Sanchez is starting to look like a major leaguer. Joseph is a stud. Whiteside and CStew are both very serviceable backups as well. Oh, and we have Susac and Alex Burg? as potential studs in the future.
1st: Not so strong in 2011, but people are quick to forget the best offseason move of 2010. Huff was responsible for carrying the Giants on his back during their World Series run. If Huff fails, I think Belt is a .300/.370/.500 player. We also have Brett Pill, known for his OBP but who has been putting up numbers lately.
2nd: Freddy is great when healthy. I for one would like to see what Burriss can do.
SS: Crawford can pick it with the best of them, and has lately started to show more confidence and balance at the plate.
3rd: My favorite player in all of baseball. Pabs.
OF: Belt, Melky, Pagan, Nate, Blanco. The speed and defense excites me here. Also, Blanco and Belt have a propensity for getting on base. Melky just had the best year of his life, is working harder than ever, and just hit his prime. Also, cheap cheap cheap.
Pitching: Linc, Cain, Bum, Vogey, (Zito, Surkamp, Yourkin, ?) I don't think there are many people who can complain about that starting 5.
Bullpen, Wilson, Romo, Affelt, Lopez, Casilla and others. We have had one of the top bullpens for multiple years now.
Where has Sabean gone wrong? Sure not every move has been perfect. But we have the best pitching in the majors, and a lineup that oozes with potential. Sandoval, Posey, and Belt are all young, homegrown, and have perennial All-Star potential. 3-4-5 for years.
Lastly, Jon Sanchez has a spring ERA of 9.72. I'll take a good defensive outfielder with 20/20 potential over that...
Jake,
DeleteGood points. The future of the team is laid out. BUT they got to sign Cain. Otherwise, Sabes will have to use the $$$ to sign fill-in FA vets, not his strong suit.
Jake - Great points about the catchers. And the Johnny Sanchez trade could be much bigger than anybody thought. Cabrera looks focused and ready to go.
DeleteMonterey Shark - I'd say Sabes is mixed on the fill-in vet on the run. Garko/Hillenbrand/Guillen stand out as poor, and Freddy was a bust in 2009, but he has had some good grabs over the years. Definitely needs to step his game up though.
Pato - great discussion. For me Lunatic Fringe is all about Vlad, so I've been in the Sabes hater camp before. And yet again now with Cain, the damn ownership might just be in the way. I maintain one reason Sabes is still standing is because he carries the ownership group's water, big time. He is who he is, he makes mistakes, and he gets nitpicked to death for those mistakes. He's an old school salt who can evaluate talent very well and has some classic short sightedness over proven ballplayers, and he's not very good on the public relations front. There's never been a GM who gets monday morning qb'd or second guessed so much in the history of GMs.
ReplyDeleteFor me there are 3 clear acts of Brian Sabean the GM. First act, the wheeler dealer who built a kick ass squad around a superstar. He might have got lucky with Kent, that conversation will never end, but you can't argue with the rest: Snow, Schmidt, Big Cat, Burks, etc. 2nd act is the fall on the face: Kent walks, no Vlad, AJ trade, Alfonso/Benitez and the vets not quite working for him as Bonds ages and then gets hurt. Third act has been in effect since the day he drafted Timmy. That was his call. Sure it was lucky that Timmy fell. Still have to draft him, and ever since the farm system has been a hit, and is interesting, and its why we congregate at this excellent site. (Thanks DrB).
As an aside there is a fanpost up at MCC about the RDF and possible links with the Warriors group and moving to SF. Quincy has some very interesting points about the nuances of Sabean's tenure.
Anyways, I can't second guess the Beltran-Wheeler trade. You're in first place, you have to go for it. Even with the freak injuries, the Rowand/Tejada lineup, Beltran getting hurt - they still almost made it. The same with the Huff contract. Nobody was screaming and yelling at the time, they were glad Huff didn't go to the Doyers like Uribe. He's signed to be a 2 WAR player, not a superstar. Now he's whipping boy number one, 1 year removed from being a rock star.
Accountability: You got me on that one a little: If Huff is not performing and stays in the lineup it is entirely legitimate to rage. However, he does need a chance to play before he gets crucified. Maybe he has something left. They get 800 OPS out of Huff, he should stay in the lineup. If Nate slides to 4th OF or the DL and Belt plays, maybe fans will give him the shot. I wish folks would go watch the 13 games in October for a second instead of raging on Huff. He was a great player in 2010. Assuming he is done is going dark side negative. Now in June, if he's rolling the ball to 2nd, I understand.
Freddy Sanchez - has battled injuries his whole life. First, they didn't sit on their hands. They tried to get Bloomquist, much mocked. Then Barmes, then Alex Gonzo. Both those players wanted the starting shortstop job and went elsewhere for it. So Crawford. Well, I think he can be a 250 hitter with extremely good top 5 defense. I think I even ran my mouth on it into a bet of some sort. What are the alternatives to Crawford? Seems like Rollins has an even chance to be the washed up vet Sabean has loved and you'd have to outbid the Phils to find out - ie 4/48MM or something crazy. Furcal is Renteria 2.0, and the Giants would have had to overbid what the Cards put down. I've exhausted Jose Reyes arguments, I'll just say its telling what the Mets bid, and the fact no other team was interested.
Sorry, that MCC fanpost is entitled "Cable Television and the NL West" for anybody interested in a bit of Sabean history discussion, as well as the Cable deals the Pads and Doyers are looking at.
DeleteSo how is Sabes supposed to fill in the MI? He placeholded it for Panik. Theriot/Fontenot are a perfectly acceptable platoon. If it doesn't work out, they move to something else. Grand cost: 2MM, 1 year. This Burriss enthusiasm is hard for me to swallow, but I'll root for him. Is Theriot done? Well, its spring training. We'll find out in the first 2 months of the season. I don't like throwing guys under the bus for spring training. It is hard though, because they invested 6MM in Freddy. You sort of have to count on that. They have options, none of them awesome, but there are several guys to slot in there before burning off farm arms for trades.
ReplyDeleteZito - no argument here. A little extra budget, or leaving one lefty off the pen would have snagged a nice 5th starter, Paul Maholm being my guy. But we have to start looking at the possibility this is beyond Sabean's control. Check out the post lefty just threw up at his site. I think the baseball operations guys are gritting their teeth and hoping. And they'll come up as empty as us. So that's a big time problem, if the 82 MPH BP slop is coming down the pipe. Surkamp or a trade, or Burres. I don't know, and I agree with you on that point, but I also think you have to consider that the RDF crew is saying "Get our monies worth" - which is of course an insane baseball strategy.
I am a big Nate fan, but we have to face the fact after 1100 MLB ABs, he might be who he is. 275/325/375 with good defense and a rocket arm. As long as he's cheap, that's a great asset to give 300 ABs and put all over the OF as needed.
Cain: 6/120MM. If Cain is asking for Sabathia money 7/161, its time to trade him. Not Sabey Sabes' style, he'll go down with the ship. So prepare for draft picks. I can see the ownership group convincing themselves another playoff run will be just the ticket to get him to sign. What are they offering? 4/75? 5/90? I say he's worth 6/120, that's the outer limits because he's 27 and absolutely the rock of the team. Kawakami has a nice column up about it.
You are right though Pato, part of the faith in Sabean is keeping the pitching together. Its a big part. But its also the fact in six years he's remade the franchise and brought in fan favorite after fan favorite who is kick ass. I'll turn the negative around - in 2 years, its quite possible an entire starting 8 under 30, entirely home grown. A pitching staff unrivaled in the land, finally free of BPBZ. A good farm system and then Sabean can play his grab one vet game which he is good at. But they do have to pony up for Cain. I'll admit I'm a wreck about that part. You should be a wreck about a main cornerstone. And I'll let OGC tell me about all the risk factors involved with pitchers but I won't really be listening because I'll be chanting "Tom Seaver... Tom Seaver... Tom Seaver..."
A few months back, Sabes said there was plenty of money to sign both Cain and Timmy and that was one of the reasons why we didn't go after a guy like Pujols or Prince or even Jimmy Rollins who would have been a huge upgrade at MI. I know I am blowing this thing out of proportion a little but the way the Giants have been hitting over the last week or two in spring training is a hell of a lot like what they looked like the last 2 months of last season.
ReplyDeleteAt some point it is time to fish or cut bait with everyone! Sabes may have run his course and Matty may have as well but at least they have the option now and before the deadline to turn Cain into 3-4 really good prospects. I would prefer they just pay Cain the money but the worst case scenario for me is that Cain finishes this year with the Giants and goes on to sign with another team leaving the Giants with a supplemental 1st round pick in return.
As for the prospects who are coming up in the system and will be ready in a year or two, they won't do much good without Cain which likely means no Timmy either. Think about it, if they were going to lock up one of the two I think everyone can agree that Cain is the safer bet long term. That would give them this year and next to go for it. The fact that they aren't "going for it" is partly because they have told the fans that the money needs to be saved for Timmy and Cain. If they don't sign either of those guys then that is just a bunch of hot air they are blowing up our asses. If the prospects are 2 years away and we aren't going for it then what are we doing? We should be rebuilding and fully committing to the rookies in 2 to 3 years.
The fortune that both Cain and Timmy could fetch is silly to think about. Whoever they would get we would assume would also be ready in 2-3 years to contribute. It isn't unrealistic to think that we could get at least 2 starting pitching prospects for either Cain or Timmy. In this ballpark we don't need aces like them but good pitchers like Luebke, Beachy, and Moore. If we kept either Timmy or Cain along with 2 young, high ceiling pitchers and our homegrown talent, the sky would be the limit.
My move if I am the Giants is to go for it this year the best they can and when they realize that it isn't meant to be and before the trade deadline, trade Timmy for as much as you can get and sign Cain for whatever he wants. Timmy will have much more value then Cain because he will have another year left on his contract and who better then Cain to lead this team through a tough year or two before the youth comes up. My guess is that this won't happen, Sabes will have a tough time getting anyone to give him what he thinks Cain is worth, and the dodgers will end up signing him. I hope I am very very wrong.
Geez! You guys really picked up the ball and ran with it here.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a little too early to panic about the season. The offense is struggling right now, but it's better to struggle now than in the season. I just have to believe that Once the Giants get a set lineup out there every day with a core of Melky, Posey and Pablo, everything else is going to take care of itself.
I hope the Giants sign Cain to an extension but not at any price. I don't think failing to re-sign him and/or Timmy is the end of the world. There are other ways to allocate the money that would have been spent on them.
What I like about Sabean's current management is that for the first time since the early 70's, the Giants have a steady stream of talent flowing in from the farm system, and yes, it started with the LIncecum draft. Despite the low rankings by some this year, the farm system still has promise of a steady flow of talent for years to come. If the farm system is producing, everything else, including the loss of star players to FA takes care of itself. If they don't have to spend money on a CF or a 2B, then they have more $$$ to spend on pitching. They can also offer a Melky a 1 year contract for about $13 M and then collect the draft picks when he signs a multiyear deal elsewhere because they have an in-house replacement.
I don't believe in making any one game or any one season of the signing of any one player a make or break for the GM or manager. I judge them based on whether the team has a good foundation. Is it headed in the right direction? As long as there is a steady flow of talent into and out of the farm system, the foundation is strong and the Giants remain as well positioned for the future as any team in baseball. I would fear another GM who might take the team in an entirely different direction that would not maintain that strong foundation.
Good post Drb.. I was scribbling down a possible opening day roster during my lunch break and came up with 12 homegrown players out of 25.. Its a good # and wouldn't mind seeing it a tad higher..(6) pitchers - Madbum, Cain, Timmy, Wilson, Romo, Hensley (1) Catcher - Posey (4) infielders - Burriss, Crawford, Pablo, and Pill(because he's RH).. (1) outfielder - Scherholtz.. This doesn't even include H Sanchez & B Belt, whom they may decide needs more seasoning in AAA. Better to see them in the majors when they're ready, not good to see them riding a AAA shuttle.. Future looks bright with Gary Brown, Heath Hembree, Joe Panik figuring to help the big club within 2 years.
DeleteLG
Cain may not be the breaking point, but the Giants 1%ers RDF may be.
ReplyDeleteThe owners and their RDF have nothing to do with Sabes' acumen as a GM.
DeleteEven the RDF may have it's silver lining. If it's purpose is to build a basketball/hockey/concert arena and goose the development of the area around the ballpark it would only enhance the Giants great position for the future. Think about it. Would you rather have a RDF or have them using the TV revenue to pay down a $2 Billion debt?
You make way to much sense for me Dr. B. As always your points are very valid but I get frustrated when I am told as a fan by management that the moves they make are for a certain reason and then it doesn't turn out the way they said it would. Not always something that is within their control but they are manipulating the fans by painting a pretty picture and then they don't deliver. I was for the Beltran trade but then to make zero effort to resign him was against what they had previously said when they traded for him. If fans had known they wouldn't be resigning him I think they would have been a lot more pissed off that we gave up Wheeler especially knowing that they may not resign Cain now. That was another example of how management has mislead fans, they promised there was plenty of money to resign Cain and all indications are that they aren't willing to pay him.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can downplay the importance of keeping the pitching staff intact. According to management it has been the top priority for the last few years! Losing Cain would be devistating and if they aren't willing to pay Cain then how likely is it that they are going to pay Timmy? If we lose both of those guys then I would have very little faith that Sabes would be able to find replacements through free agency to step in right away. Sure he may be able to draft a few more pitchers who would eventually be ready to step in but there would be a couple years in between where we would flat out suck.
I don't mind that they are kind of cheap and it makes sense to be frugal when it comes to pitchers who want 100 million but the alternative is simple, trade him and get some value so that we can rebuild! If they let him go thinking maybe he will sign with us at the end of the year then they are the biggest idiots in mlb. No free agent who wasn't able to get a deal done with their original team has ever gone into free agency and stayed put. They will lose Cain and only recieve a supplemental 1st which is unacceptable!
I know how positive you are Dr. B and thats great but take a look at it from my perspective and let me know if this sounds all too possible: This year we are around .500 and miss the playoffs mostly because of lack of offense. Cain walks after this year. Next year we are even worse then this year because of no Cain and no immediate offensive upgrades available through free agency or in the minors ready to contribute. The following year we lose Timmy and although we would have around 40 million to spend without having to pay Timmy and Cain, there still aren't a hell of a lot of players in free agency and especially not pitchers who could fill those shoes. Even if there is a pitcher like Hamels or Shields or Felix or any other top line pitchers available, they too will be looking for over 100 million which Sabes wasn't willing to pay for our own pitchers so why would he spend that on someone else! You see where I am going here? Not signing Cain could snowball into not signing Timmy which would put this team in a position where we are hoping that soft hitting homegrown talent can carry what used to be a great pitching team. Even the homegrown soft hitting talent is going to need a few years to get good once they break into the league so you are looking at the next 5 to 6 years of more excuses for why we suck. I don't think this is a path that is all that far fetched to assume they will be going down if Cain isn't signed.
One more thing, all of the talent we have in the minors is great coming from the perspective that we have strong starting pitching. None of these guys are the next Ryan Brauns or Matt Kemps or Robinson Canos. They all have promise and with lights out pitching they wouldn't need to be superstars, just solid contributors. The problem is that without the lights out pitching, all of a sudden we could have a homegrown offense that doesn't feature a single player with 30+ HR or 100+ RBI. I love panda and posey but those guys are 25 & 90 guys at best. Brown and Panik aren't middle of the lineup guys either. It changes the perspective on how good our farm system is when you look at it from this angle, without Timmy, Cain, and Madbum anchoring the starting pitching, we would need a lot more runs then these guys are going to produce to be competitive.
ReplyDeleteThis is so clear to me sometimes it makes it difficult to explain in a way that makes more sense because frankly I don't know how it could make more sense! Everything the Giants have been doing over the last 6 years has been building this team around pitching. Without that pitching we are nothing! Sabes has proven he can draft pitching and Evans has proven he can get quality offensive pieces as well but neither has proven they know how to sign free agents or put together trades for prospects. If we aren't going to pay our own pitchers to stick around then we will have to wait to develop more. If we can't sign free agents then there will be no stop gap for when we lose our starting pitching. If we can't trade our big trade chips for prospects to speed up the developing process then it is inevitable that we will have another 5 to 6 year stretch of sucking while Sabes stocks up on top 10 draft picks and management pads their bank accounts.
Pato - I agree with you, Cain is a lynchpin. After all the lip service, not getting him signed up will cost dearly.
DeleteDisagree about Beltran the rental part. It was very clearly defined as a rental, without any compensation possible due to his contract. After viewing his play, especially his defense, a good argument could be made for laying that one down.
Cano is a bad example - the Yanks tried to give him away several times before realizing what they had. Kemp was a steal as a 6th round pick, and Braun was the 5th pick in the 2005 draft. I know you were just throwing out sluggers, but check this: the Giants do need to step up their international game, they are allowing an opportunity to spend before the CBA starts slip away, but its a crapshoot. They have a 6th round pick (Belt) currently causing much handwringing. And they won't get the premium picks of the top 5 due to their winning record. You can't hit better than they did with Lincecum, MadBum and Posey.
The drafting in the past six years has been stellar. The 3 catchers, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I could see Tommy Joseph being a 30/100 if he develops.
I don't recall any promises of re-signing Beltran. I think that was more wishful thinking of fans posting on the internet.
DeleteI think that was the assumption after hearing Sabes say over a hundred times how he didn't want to waste prospects on rentals. I also don't recall him saying they weren't going to sign him after last year and in fact, they said several times that they were trying to resign him but then made little to no effort. What makes it even worse is that they didn't even get the normal draft pick teams get after letting him go as he had a clause in his contract which made it even more imperative that they resign him or else they would have wasted their best pitching prospect for a month of Beltran which was never ever part of their plans that they made public. So basically Sabes has told us for years now that he doesn't want to buy rentals and yet he goes out and does just exactly that. So either he is a liar which I have been arguing or an idiot which I have also argued in the past. I think it is a valid assumption on the part of Giants fans to assume they would have resigned Beltran if they were willing to give up a top prospect for him based on everything Sabes has said publicly in the past.
DeletePato,
DeleteBeltran's contract was done. It was an investment. They spent a good prospect for a huge bat to help us make the playoffs. We didn't. But we aren't somehow tied back to him. If the Giants organization felt he was going to be good for the team, they would have signed him. Be happy they are making smart decisions. Think about Huff. People are complaining to no end after he received a 2 for 22 million contract. Beltran costs more, and has a good chance to be a bigger contract albatross. The Giants are smart. They are on the right path.
Most fans think they know from the start if a trade or a signing is good or bad. They judge this from WAR numbers, fantasy numbers, and a lot more. But think about the days when you played a sport. The statistics from one season didn't represent someone and who they are as an athlete. I know a lot about sports, but I don't claim to know how smart these players are. Or how well they see the ball. There are numerous things that teams with scouts and personnel dedicated to finding both high potential juniors as well as good trade value. Trust the Giants. Sabean and Bochy have managed to take an aging Giants team with a 72-90 record in 2008 to now. They put the Giants in a good position to win a World Series in the present (2010), and win more in the future.
Relax. Enjoy the good weather. Watch the Giants win the West.
Love the optimism Jake. Just so you know, I still play baseball and am very relaxed but that doesn't make me turn a blind eye when I see my favorite team making excuses. I agree that they shouldn't have resigned Beltran, was just trying to prove a point about how we as fans have been mislead and therefore continue to give Giant management the benefit of the doubt while they continue to make upwards of 8 million a year off of us fans who support them. Are we in a good position right now and going forward? That all depends on if this pitching staff stays intact. If they don't resign Cain then we don't have the pitching staff that puts us in a good position to sustainably win. It also would be a precursor to what they are going to do with Timmy when he is asking for over 100 million after next year.
DeleteBigger then resigning or not resigning Cain is the domino affect it will have on this team. I don't think Timmy wants to be back with us after next year and if they lose Cain I think it is a given that they lose Timmy and that puts us right back where we started 5 years ago. Maybe you prefer to sit on the deck sipping a mai tai trying to avoid watching the ship sink while I prefer to see the signs before it is too late and plea that something be done!
I just don't agree with your assertion that the fans were somehow misled. Misled by their own imaginations, maybe, but not by Brian Sabean and the Giants. Sabes specifically said at the time of the trade that his philosopy in the past was to only trade for players whose contracts were controlled for a least a year or two. He said this situation was different. If they were specifically looking for a commitment beyond 2011, they almost certainly would have traded for Hunter Pence instead of Beltran, and I do believe they could have put together a better package of prospects than the Phillies if that is what they wanted.
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