Well, another trade I didn't see coming. The Giants today traded Ross Stripling RHP to the A's for Jonah Cox OF a minor leaguer drafted just last summer in the 6'th round. The Giants sent $3.5 M to the A's to cover part of Stripling's $12.5 M salary.
I am pretty sure this trade feels like addition by subtraction to a lot of Giants fans. After a shiny 2022 season with the Toronto Blue Jays, Stripling did a face plant last year after signing a 2 year/$25 M contract with the Giants. His HR/FB rate was a crazy 22.0% which, BTW, was not the highest of his career. He gave up 20 HR's in just 89 IP. His performance as so bad he elected to not exercise his opt-out clause even in what promised to be an extreme buyer's market for pitchers.
Last week we saw some odd articles by Giants beatwriters about how Stripling was working on a new pitch, a "deathball" slider that had a similar feel to those "best shape of his life" stories we read every spring. You now have to wonder if those beat writers were used by the Giants to write propaganda pieces to gin up trade interest from other teams. If so, the A's, who seem to be in a total state of chaos, took the bait.
So yes, it definitely seems like this was a great trade for FZ even if the Giants got nothing but a bag of bucket of used balls in return, but they actually got an interesting prospect in return:
Jonah Cox OF. DOB: 8/4/2001. B-R, T-R. 6' 3", 200 lbs. Rule 5 Eligible Dec. 2026.
2023(College- Oral Roberts): .412/.470/.646, 11 HR, 28 SB, 30 BB, 53 K, 317 PA.
2023(ACL): .421/.560/.579, 6 SB, 4 BB, 1 K, 25 PA.
2023(A): .254/.325/.373, 2 HR, 14 SB, 4.2 BB%, 33.3 K%, 120 PA.
It's a bit unusual to find a position player of this size who is also this fast. Cox was a HS and JC shortstop who moved to CF at Oral Roberts and played mainly CF after being drafted by he A's. He also has some pop in his bat with room for power development. He's got 3 more seasons of development before his Rule 5 Draft eligible so time is on his and the Giants side as far as achieving what looks like a fairly high ceiling.
With Stripling and his huge question mark out of the rotation the imperative for FZ to sign another reliable veteran SP seems to be clear. He could not be seriously thinking of starting the season with Logan Webb as the only established MLB SP in the rotation with Alex Cobb RHP and Robbie Ray LHP at least 2 months away from activation off the IL. Hey! Maybe he's passed on all those second line SPs because he's keeping his powder dry for Blake Snell?
Addition by subtraction and sending another one of FZ's many mistakes to Timbuktu where it will be out of sight out of mind! Fox is icing on the cake!!
ReplyDeleteAnd totally agree with your assessment of the rotation and the desperate need for SP or two. As I mentioned in the other thread, if he doesn't he is flirting with a horrendous and lost season. After Webb all, all you have are question marks. Kids and a converted reliever all who be lucky to pitch 100-125 IP and all looking to find their footing, and two starters that won't be ready till July-August at the earliest and that's it. There's is real hope for the future with the kids (and maybe we are nicely surprised this season???) and then Ray and Cobb, but this coming season is looking like a punt season without another major SP as well as 3-4 relievers. Still time for FZ.
SteveVA
What about Julio Urias? Buy incredibly low on him?
ReplyDeleteI would hope not.
DeleteAre we getting into Trevor Bauer flyer territory?
ReplyDeleteDouble hope not.
DeleteLarry Baer?
DeleteI don't condone Larry Baer's behavior toward his wife in public but that is in no way comparable to a very long history of very bad behavior on the part of Trevor Bauer which goes way beyond the criminal complaint of one contact.
DeleteThis is the last comment I will accept regarding Trevor Bauer. I don't think there is any chance the Giants will sign him. I hope I am correct about that. I don't know if I would go so far as to cease being a fan if they did but I would not be happy about it.
DeleteExcited pitchers and catchers reporting soon, yes!
ReplyDeleteHowever this off season really feels like death by a thousands cuts, yikes.
Farhan sign a pitcher a batter already, sheesh!!
Richard in Winnipeg
P.s Doc keep up the great reporting.
SteveVa, loving your comments.
Do you think that the Giants' "get-rid-of-trades" and "no-attempt-to-sign" players like Pederson, Manaea, Wood, and maybe others (NOT including Crawford) might have something to do with the clubhouse problems at the end of the year?
ReplyDeleteVery possible, although I am not aware Manaea was part of the problem, but Wood and Stripling definitely were grumbler when they only had themselves to blame.
DeleteJust thinking Manaea maybe wasn't happy with being "jacked around" between SP & RP, and, perhaps, no role promised for 2024. He may well not have been happy with that but it's just conjecture.
DeleteHe did get a $2MM raise for 2024 and an option for 2025
I hope they were not signed because of Dodger Envy. They had 6 players from the 2020 Dodger team: Wood, Stripling, Alexander, McGee, Pederson, and Pollack.
DeleteFZ seems to have his comfort zones and one of them is players from his previous MLB lives. Maybe now that he's been in the POBO chair awhile he's starting to get away from that? That and realizing he is running out of time to put a sustained winner on the field in SF?
DeleteIn the last 2 years, in separate trades, the Giants sent right-hander Prelander Berroa to Seattle and reliever Gregory Santos to the White Sox for Donovan Walton and Kade McClure, respectively.
ReplyDeleteToday, the two them, Berroa and Santos, were swapped for each other.
The Giants got Donovan Walton who is a River Cat and Kade McClure who is a Free Agent.
Seems like maybe Santos is the one who got away. Giants originally acquired him along with Shaun Anderson from the Red Sox for Eduardo Nunez who was a good Giant.
DeleteFirst pitchers and catchers report this Friday with SF reporting among the last a week from Tuesday.
ReplyDeleteStill 66 unsigned free agent Pitchers, 26 SPs and 42 RPs, and countless position players – many with a lot of WAR the last few years, and the TOP 4 from Boras.
It's time for MLB to step in and make a signing date after which unsigned players must wait until the season begins, or, perhaps, an appropriate date in March. It's absurd for teams to start Spring Training without knowing who is going to be competing on their rosters. Sure, guys like Bellinger and Chapman don't need 6 weeks to be ready for the season, but call these guys what they are: they are Holdouts. Make them wait, not the teams and the fans.
I am loath to give ownership any more leverage than they already have but agree this situation is kind of ridiculous. Fans do have a right to expect the players to be fully integrated into their team and ready to play by Opening Day. Maybe make Feb 1 a signing/trade deadline and not reopen it until May 1? What do you do with players who don't make the cut to 26 and 40-man rosters out of spring training. Do you make an exception allowing them a window to hook up with another team?
DeleteMLB noise has the Giants in on Chapman.
ReplyDeleteEveryone on that bandwagon should review Longoria's 5-year record with SF: 2 years with 90 or more games (125 and 129 in the first 2 years), one "Longoria" year in 2021 when just about every Giant had a career or near-career year (and Longoria played half the season: 81 games).
Chapman will clog the infield if not the second year every year thereafter.
If you must, pay him $25-30 million for one year, then games-played based after that, $10 million/year plus incentives for games played, starting at 125 games.
There has been a lot of smoke around Chapman for awhile now with no fire. You have to wonder how real it is. I am on record multiple times as saying the Giants have bigger upgrade needs than 3B so would be disappointed if Chapman is the big signing.
DeleteI ead something concerning about Chapmans 2023 hard-hit rate, or BABIP, or something. Yes, he's a great defender, but JD Davis does a very good job defending at 3B, backed up by Casey Schmitt (and Wilmer). The player we need is Snell!
DeleteGiants need another frontline SP to start the season and beyond. Snell fits the description and is the best available.
Delete
DeleteHow much in contract dollars is Snell over Montgomery?
MLBTR Predictions which are generally quite accurate has Snell projected for 7 yrs/$200 M and Montgomery at 6 yrs/$150.
DeleteGiants seemingly have to overpay for position players, but can get pitchers on fairer terms.
DeleteHicks may have been a slight overpay (MLBTR), but Lee seems to be a massive bet that he can hit enough to better a 2-2.5 WAR and play every day (145 games ?)
Do you wonder if Melvin is pushing for Chapman? That would be a colossal mistake unless he comes for far less than MLBTR predicts (Six years, $150MM).
Hard to say. Chapman played for Melvin with the A's but I think it was Melvin who said they had to figure out how Chapman would fit on the roster.
DeleteWhew, Keith Law (TheAthletic paywall) ripped Luciano (way down @ #84) AND the Giants in his new Top 100.
ReplyDeleteHe finished with Luciano "can still be an above-average regular if the Giants give him the time to develop his pitch recognition" which may be true but probably not what the Giants will do: someone has to play SS to which Law opined: "He’s also not a shortstop, and I think moving him to left field might allow him to focus more on developing the bat while also perhaps keeping him healthy."
Law was mostly positive on Harrison (#11) & Eldridge (#85), but that was it for the young G-men.
Maybe he's reading "When the Giants Come to Town" because he ranks them in the same order as the Doc: 1-2-3
Keith Law is a smart baseball analyst but is not always right and once he takes a position he is extremely resistant to changing it.
DeleteAccording to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle, the Giants and free-agent slugger Jorge Soler are discussing a contract.
ReplyDelete$15M/year, 3 years?
DH?
It could be worse.
He's very good against LHP, not bad against RHP,
Maybe not good news for Slater.
I agree the Giants need a power hitter to DH. I would prefer a lefty bat for that role but if the right one is not available I'd be OK with Soler or J. D. Martinez.
Delete2023 and Pederson highlights the fear of a lefty DH: Giants get some guys on base late in the game and in comes a LHP to squelch the DH. Of course the Giants retaliate with Slater so that could work for a run but no power for a crooked number.
DeleteMore churn: acquired left-hander Ethan Small from Milwaukee for cash on Monday after the Brewers designated him for assignment last week.
Junis and his 86 innings signs with Milwaukee.
DeleteIn your prospect list, you have 11 pitchers within 13 slots from #6 to #18.
How many will be eating all the innings that are gone?
I probably need to write a post about how Jakob Junis was a good Giant. I was hoping they would re-sign him.
DeleteHeyman said on podcast that Giants talking to Chapman. No surprise. I. wanted Snell but giving him a long term contract over $200 million may not be a crazy idea. I think signing Chapman and Soler would cap off a nice off-season. Posey said he's a pitching and defense believer but he's not the decision maker. Maybe that's part of their attraction to Chapman.
ReplyDeleteCan the Giants young pitching form the next kiddie core rotation? I'm usually looking forward to the season at this time, but this year looks like I'll be in off season mode during spring training since so many players remain unsigned. Hope MLB does something about this. It's bad for the game in many ways.
Meant to say giving Snell $200 mil might be a crazy idea. He's had a few off years too.
DeleteArbitration seems to be going against the teams: former nearly-never Giant Bickford wins after lackluster couple of seasons. Forever greedy, he should be glad he has a job. Very nice he's in New York for an overpaid loser team.
ReplyDeleteA's have 2 experienced SP, Giants have 1 — go figure!
ReplyDeleteFangraphs' playoff odds paints an ugly picture for the Giants, but they think the Braves are the 2nd Coming and will spank the $308,900,026-payrolled Dawgs handily.
ReplyDeleteAnd, if nothing else, we can cheer for that!
Things are relative: Ben Clemens agrees with the Faithful sentiment that the Giants "are spinning their wheels without accomplishing much of anything. They didn’t sign many free agents this year after talking a big game about rebounding from missing out on Aaron Judge by making a huge push for Shohei Ohtani. They’re also spending much less in 2024 than they did in 2023; they’re down nearly $50 million in payroll."
Roster Resource refutes this saying the Giants luxury Tax Payroll is currently at $200M (12th in MLB), and it certainly wasn't $250M last year which Clemens states!
Plus, we all think that the Giants aren't done, don’t we?
SF is $37M below the luxury tax threshold — that's enough for a Montgomery-like pitcher and a Martinez-like DH, isn't it? Not saying that's what they will do, or should do, but they really will do something.
Won’t they?
Re. Clemons comments: Yes if the Hot Stove League wrapped up today, he would be right, but there are still the "big 4" 2'nd tier free agents out there and quite a few other lower level ones. There are also still trades that could be made. Snell or Montgomery plus Martinez, Soler or Belt would be a nice ending. Snell is the obvious fit to me for both sides. Can't they just agree on a price point and get it done?
DeleteSeems offers aren't reaching Boras's "promises" to his clients. ST for LAD starts tomorrow!
ReplyDeleteDavis might have bought himself a ticket out of town.
ReplyDeleteHe will get $400,000 more than the Giants thought he was worth, good for him, hope he does better than being the 11th best bWAR on a bad team. No one will miss him, anybody hear how good Davis was last year?
If SF signs Chapman — hope not — Davis will be somewhere else this season. Of course, it might be better for him! Good bye.
I am kind of scratching my head here trying to figure out what you are saying. Davis was #4 among position players in fWAR for the Giants last year. I am not sure where to find bWAR rankings but I personally prefer fWAR, partly because the information is more accessable but also because I believe Fangraphs uses more advanced defensive metrics than Baseball Reference. If FZ is petty enough to ship Davis out over an arbitration loss then he really, really should be fired.
DeleteAgreed, a bit harsh.
DeleteB-R rating downgraded Davis a lot compared to Fangraphs.
Not sure he was as bad as B-R said (0.9 bWAR downgraded from a 1.8 oWAR by a negative dWAR), but maybe not as good as Fangraphs. (2.2 fWAR, upgraded by a very good dWAR!).
Go figure.
One was more in line with the Giants offer and the other with Davis.
Perhaps Solano was passed in effectiveness enough by Estrada in 2021 that the Giants didn't want to compete for Donny Barrels 2B-only ability and they didn't offer him as good a contract for 2022, or maybe the arbitration process soured them. It can't be pleasant to discuss "what's wrong" with a player and why the team doesn't want to pay so much.
The Giants have an excellent record of compromise with their arbitration eligible players. They don't want to go to arbitration and usually reach a better-than-midway salary before arbitration. In most organizations, bucking the system is a ticket out.