Friday, January 20, 2012

Down on the Farm: #24 Joan Gregorio

#24 Joan Gregorio, RHP. 6'7", 180 lbs. BD: 1/12/1992.

Rookie AZL: 3-0, 2.32, 50.1 IP, 16 BB, 43 K, GO/AO= 1.20.

Gregorio is a tall drink of water who graduated from the DSL after putting up pretty good numbers there in 2010. He improved his K rate from the DSL and maintained a good BB% for a kid that young and gangly. He reportedly throws in the low 90's with room to increase that as he fills out. He was signed in 2010 for a low 6 figure bonus. I would expect to see him pitching for Augusta in 2012. That's pretty much all I know about him.

43 comments:

  1. I know nothing about this kid besides his stats. Looks good to me and boy is he tall. 180lbs? He needs to gain a good 20lbs at that height. I am only 6'2" and according to BMI my healthy weight would be 175-185. Yeah right, maybe in high school I was. Anyways, he is way undersized and once he puts on some good lean muscle he will look scary up there on the mound.

    DrB,

    I am curious how many MLB and MILB games you will attend this year as well as other people on this site? I am an Orange County guy so I probably will see 2 out of 3 when they are in Anaheim and maybe 2 down at Petco. I don't know if I will get up to AT&T this year but I would like to. So, I am hoping to see at least 3-4 games. I have the DirecTV baseball package so I will see a lot of games that way. I saw about 70-80 complete games last year. It would be nice to see San Jose or Fresno this year. Maybe I will make the trek to see them against the Padres or Dodgers MILB teams. How about anybody else?

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  2. Nice to hear about Romo. One year deal worth $1.575MM. He is probably one of the best relievers that most people have never heard of. He quietly puts up great numbers. I love the low walk rate. I still have that bad memory of Manny Ramirez hitting a HR against him in 2010 after Zito pitched a great game. If Wilson does not come back healthy I would actually be okay with Casilla and Romo handling that duty. I was kind of shocked about the one year deal. I was thinking they were going to do a three year deal like Sandoval. Excited either way though to see him pitch this year.

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  3. I watch most of my Giants games on DirecTV too. We'll probably try to get Tix to at least one game in Anaheim and we usually go to at least one in Dodger Stadium.

    I try to go see at least one game each when the San Jose Giants play in Lake Elsinore, Rancho Cucamonga or San Bernardino. Occasionally trek up to High Desert. I'll post on the blog when I am planning to go to the MILB games.

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  4. I think I will try to catch a San Jose Giants game this year. Especially if the roster includes Villalona, Oropesa, Panik, etc. That will be an exciting team!

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  5. Speaking of the Desert - check out these Palm Springs kids skipping HS ball to play in wooden bat leagues - Cody Poteet and Tanner Rahier. Apparently almost 10% of the top 100 HS players are doing this. Maybe its not as extreme as Harper going to JC but maybe the state of CA needs to relax its eligibility requirements a bit, it looks like a trend on the upswing.

    I've been down in LA (mid-city) way too long. I used to go to a few Doyers games a year with friends but joined in the McCourt boycott. I was at opening day 2008 when Zito got beat 5-0. My one and only venture to the upper deck of Dodger Stadium. It was scary as hell, and I wasn't even wearing any Giants gear, just trying to watch a ballgame. My buddy and I left after 3 innings. No security, no concessions, just an absolute mess.

    Very psyched for Romo. I'm a little surprised they didn't try and get more done, maybe the injury side for the Giants and the upside of another incredible statistical season for Romo kept them apart.

    6'7 is pushing the limit in my opinion. There just aren't that many good tall baseball players. Maybe because the best athletes get pushed to hoops, but there just gets to be coordination issues as well.

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  6. Interesting take by Schulman on his twitter feed. "At the moment, Gs have ONE player signed for '14, Pablo at $8.25m. Truly a blank slate for Sabean, now signed through '13 with '14 option......Starting now, with Cain/Lince negotiations, Sabean has more leeway to shape team than at any time in his tenure. Will be easy to judge."

    And something that gets Gints fans riled up from time to time... "Yes & no. $126m for Z not his call. Had little wiggle rm during Bonds yrs but had his share of goofs.RT @sethcorr: BS made own bed since '97"

    As somebody who likes to zing Sabean's mistakes occasionally but also admires his overall record and has enjoyed the era, its a pretty unique situation especially in the modern era of baseball for a GM to be at his post this long. Good chance Sabey Sabes will be extended beyond that option as well, so in 2014 he'll have been at it for 17 years. Already the longest most successful tenured GM in Giants history.

    Going back to your point about Timmy leaving not being the end of the world DrB, there certainly are a whole lot of free agent alternatives coming on the market in 2013-14. The point we make about Sabean is he does what works for him until it doesn't. I think he'd be extremely cautious with the FA market but there maybe one key piece there for him, obviously if Timmy leaves there will be a huge chunk of money free'd up, which almost has to be spent somewhere.

    Frankly, this offseason has made me a believer. All the big names this year have huge red flags attached along with the high price tags. We're not the Yanks, we have to burn off the bad contracts. Sabes has maintained all the Gints strengths while improving defense, athleticism and possibly providing upside and more importantly maintaining future payroll flexibility. The part I'm a little shocked about is the operate Crawford/Burriss/Pill/Belt without a proven vet safety net. But if they believe that much in what they've got, hey, let's see what happens.

    I actually got the MLB internet package last year, usually I did the directv route, but so many games were on MLB/Doyers/ESPN I didn't get the package last year. I'll re-up directv this year.

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    1. Thanks for the FYI on Schulman tweets.

      I think the problem about Sabean's goofs is that many Giants fans just look at a goof as being equal to any other goof. Sure, AJ was a huge goof, but it was a good trade, it just didn't work out because the player was an ass. Given his Kent and Schmidt trade, I can give him that.

      But many of the problems are in the minds of these Giants fans. They still rub their John Bowker cards thinking he's going to break out one of these years. Freddy Lewis too. They count as a goof when Sabean tries out failed prospects for the 25th position on the roster, that's one of my biggest problems, they make mountains out of a very small molehill.

      They blame him for the lack of production on the farm system but, while technically it is his fault - he had lack of production because that's what happens when you are winning every year, you get lousy draft picks, low odds of finding good starting players - it is for a good thing, because the team was winning.

      There is no balance, either, with what he has built. No matter what goofs he had done previously, he put together Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner, Wilson, Romo, Sandoval, Posey, Belt, Brown, Panik. That is the reality now, that is the bed we are sleeping in, yet they still give him the back of their hand, even after the World Series championship.

      I think that the MI market got overheated and that Sabean will invite at least one vet MI with a minor league deal. The key is that the Giants do not need much to come out of the SS position, even if Huff only reach his projected numbers, so they got Crawford up first, then Adrianza if Crawford should be out for any reason. The defense will be there, that gives the team some comfort in going with the current group.

      But Sabean does love his veteran competition, so I expect someone to come in and challenge Burriss for the backup spot. Though I should also note that Fontenot was pretty good defensively at SS and was good in certain situations offensively. He might be considered internally as the adequate alternative should Crawford not pan out.

      There's no guarantee in life, but I think the Giants have worked out the risks for the position pretty well, with Burriss/Fontenot as replacement at 2B should(when) Franchez go out. And who knows, if Panik or Noonan can start hot in 2012, they might be considered for a call-up by mid-season.

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    2. I like these indented comments tied to the original comment. I modified my blog to do the same since I use blogspot too.

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    3. Shank, Schulman makes my point exactly, only Pablo $$$ committed for 2014. There is room to sign Timmy for Two and Cain for Four. Especially if the Zito/Rowand contracts are viewed as the sunk cost they are. The only issue is how much the Giants choose to let the Zito/Rowand contracts tie their hands for 2012/13 against their proclaimed $130M budget.

      Evaluate Timmy after next year, another year of declining stats would be a warning sign. Perhaps we see some of the young stud arms in the minors start to emerge as well.

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    4. From Baggs: The Giants and the agent for Tim Lincecum have made significant progress in the 48 hours after arbitration figures were exchanged Wednesday, and sources say both sides are confident of a resolution before a hearing would be scheduled to determine a salary for the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

      Its natural to freak out about our best players, but you gotta give the team time to work things out. The natural reaction of "Timmy's going to leave because our offense sucks and Sabean's an idiot and he likes Seattle" is pretty silly. Although I can see Sabean yelling "I'm a people person! I like People!" a la Office Space. But still, the Giants are going to make every effort to retain one of their best players ever. Have a little faith.

      Romo had a very nice tweet thanking everybody. That guy is just golden.

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    5. Romo is a great guy. Saw an interview with him near the end of his first season in the majors, really nice down to earth guy, I've been rooting for him ever since.

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  7. Living in Redlands, My wife and I usually try to make it to 1 or 2 Giants games a year against the Padres. Sadly, I will no longer go to Dodger Stadium because my wife told me that she just does not feel safe walking from the parking lot or even walking inside the stadium. Dodgers fans have just got really angry in the past 5 years and just curse because they see I wear my Giants cap. Seriously, how can a parent justifiably high five his son when the little squirt tells my wife and I the Giants F***ing suck as I am in line to get a hot dog? I am all for a rivalry, but I shouldn't feel bad to root or pump my fist when my team hits a HR or makes a nice play. I wish people would give a little more respect to each other and not get so upset that a rival fan bought your friends ticket on stubhub.

    Actually, I really like Petco better in all aspects of going to a game because, the fans are nicer, the field is more updated, the parking situation isn't dangerous and overall just feel safer about hanging out with a bunch of surfers. I plan on taking my future kids to many games down in San Diego to teach them about Giants Baseball.

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    1. I've really enjoyed the Pads game I went to. Really nice park. Mellow crowd. Stubhub got me on the field on first base for 20 bucks a pop. Got to see Tulo and the boys lose a game to some hustle from the SD SurfDogs as my buddy heckled Jorge Cantu (in a reasonably priced Dave Winfield t-shirt no less).

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  8. I don't get out much anymore: we're living in our vacation and entertainment budget, bought too big a mortgage in hindsight (just didn't realize my income would go down so much, came out of the blue; life as a consultant...).

    My brother's wife's job used to have free tickets so we did that for a while, but my kids were never really into baseball like I am, so that is a deterrent as well, as I like to spend as much time with them as I can outside work (time flies!).

    Plus, I grew up listening to my trusty transistor radio, so that's my favorite medium, I can listen while working, while driving, while out and about (though that's only in the car, no longer have a portable AM radio other than a hand-crank generator model).

    Before I got married, I used to go to around 20 games a season, usually made at least one of the Dodger series (first date with my wife there; Giants won in great, huge comeback in bottom of 9th).

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    1. Oh, we've been meaning to make a San Jose Giants game, there are usually free tickets available at local stores, just never got around except once, Ishikawa hit a HUGE booming homer out to right center, it was dark, but I thought it was high enough to go into the parking lot, so I looked around when we returned to our car.

      I enjoyed that, but then I handled Candlestick with few problems (you just plan ahead to stay warm, and I figured out the best parking spot to get out of the yard fast, then got tickets to the section closest to that spot; it was great). My family wasn't too happy, though, but maybe this season.

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  9. I think DirecTV is the only way to go if you live out of market and especially if you have a DVR. I can't always see the games live and after the game is played it takes awhile for it to be posted on MLB.TV. I am either going to watch the game later that night or not at all. If I want to see a particular play, the good ones seem to be on sfgiants.com. MLB.TV is pretty cool if you are out of town though.

    Shankbone,

    Forget the FA's who are eligible in 2013-14. If the player is highly regarded he will probably sign with Yankees, Red Sox or Philadelphia. FA is a joke and most of the time you seriously overpay for talent. I prefer building through the draft, international signings, or trades.

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    1. I mostly agree, most free agents are a bad gamble, but there are special players that you know are going to be good free agents, like Bonds was, Maddux, CC, Vlad, so I would not make a blanket statement on that.

      Plus, sometimes the farm just cannot generate every position that you need to fill within the time limits of your window when you have your other top starting players. Like the Alfonzo signing, as risky as that was, it would have been just as risky going into the next season with Pedro Feliz as the starter. And despite whatever problems Edgardo had, he was still an on-base machine his whole career, until he reached the Giants. He was good for .850 OPS+ in 3 of his prior 4 seasons, and he was only 29 YO too, it was a better gamble than having Feliz as the starter.

      It is much like Durham, who knew he would suddenly become a DL machine after never going on the DL previously in his career. In hindsight, neither signing looks good, but at the time, there were reasons to be positive about both signing.

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    2. What I was trying to spit out was that while the FA might be a bad gamble, sometimes the alternative in the farm system is a worse option.

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    3. Maybe what Sabes seems to be doing is a better option than signing that one haymaker FA. Build a core of homegrown players and fill in the holes with relatively inexpensive guys like Pagan and Cabrera plus a dumpster dive that pans out here and there.

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  10. Coming from Monterey I catch the Little Giants 5-6 times annually and the Big Giants about 10 times a year. I will forever be a bleacher bum fan of the cheap seats, as I was brought up watching Willie Mays from the $3.00 seats.

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    1. The great thing about minor league games, at least down here in SoCal, is you can walk up to the ticket window 5 min. before game time and get front row seats directly behind home plate. If you don't like watching the game through the netting and with the ump's big butt blocking your view, you can sit a bit farther back and still be close enough to the action to feel like you are right on the field. You can also ask for seats right next to the Little Giants dugout we did that when Matt Cain pitched. Trevor Wilson came over and talked to us and helped us get Cainer's autograph. We still have the ball signed Matt Cain #18 from when he was pitching for San Jose.

      You don't have to plan ahead and don't have to worry about it being sold out. Just decide to go an hour before game time, walk up to the ticket window and bam, you have the best seats in the house!

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    2. trevor was great. always had time to chat with the fans. sad day when he left the org

      i prefer to sit behind the guys in the pen

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  11. I live in Rancho and try to see the little Giants when they come to Rancho or San Bernardino. I even saw one game in the beautiful Lake Elsinore stadium. The problem has been, the last couple of years, they play down here very late in the year, the big Gs games are more important and several of the
    Little Gs players have been promoted to AA. I've been trying to meet Dr. B and buy him a beer, but we haven't connected yet.
    I think Sabean gets criticized just to criticize. The criticism is not consistent. The major criticism seems to be his "love" of aging vets. But when he puts together a really young team: Posey, Crawford, Panda, Pagan, ?cabrerra, Schierhotz, possibly Belt, with Burris, Belt on the bench, not a peep. Instead, the lunatic fringe is pissed that he didn't sign aging Beltran, with kis glass knees, that he is starting young Crawford... Instead of whom? Whenever he has a draft and develop success, and there are a lot of them: Posey, Crawford, Panda, Schierholtz, Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Romo, he's called Lucky,
    The fact is the guy has done a terrific job with a limited budget. And he keeps changing and getting better. Just look at our bevy of young mLB players - and just look at our farm system.

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    1. The changing part is key for me. Whether it is from being burned and having a long memory, being freed from having to support an aging superstar, freed from payroll constraints from a penny-pinching ownership which allowed one thing but not another, whatever it is... I see a lot of change. Now its not absolute change, but yes, he has done a terrific job on a limited budget. I've said this before - you take the Rowand/Zito out of the equation, he's playing a version of moneyball himself. The high BA/high OBP guys are taken or expensive. You make compromises. They're dismissed as flukes when they're successful. The drafts are dismissed as luck, and not his area anyways. That to me is very unfair. Sabean has hit on a number of older guys until he didn't. He has hit on a number of castoffs until he didn't. Its a different version of moneyball. Mainly pitching and defense are extremely hard to measure at times, and they don't lead on highlights. So they are always low profile. Which is what Sabean is 95% of the time.

      Huff and Sanchez "Graduate" in a year or two, the lineup might be entirely under 30. There will literally be nobody to complain about as far as Sabean's MO. And if they hit on a couple more draft picks or sign a big baller FA, the offense might take off into a juggernaut, and then its going to be really hilarious to watch the sputtering.

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  12. The Giants have announced their list of the 25 non-roster invitees who will be attending spring training. The list is as follows:

    RHP: Jake Dunning, Justin Fitzgerald, Austin Fleet, Stephen Harrold, Heath Hembree, Andrew Kown, Mitch Lively, Shane Loux, Jean Machi, Seth Rosin and Shawn Sanford.
    LHP: Brian Burres, David Quinowski, Wilmin Rodriguez, Matt Yourkin
    C: Tommy Joseph, Andrew Susac, Jackson Williams
    IF: Joaquin Arias, Chris Dominguez, Nick Noonan, Joe Panik
    OF: Gregor Blanco, Gary Brown, Juan Perez

    couple of surprises in the position invites and boy is the org thin in sp depth

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    1. I think Yourkin and Kown could make an emergency start or two if they had to. Justin Fitzgerald is a sleeper who I think could step into a 5 starter role by midseason. Rosin is a lot closer than people think. I'm a bit surprised they didn't invite Yusmeiro Petit. Look for Sabes to sign at least one more veteran dumpster dive SP by the start of Spring Training too.

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  13. Lets look real quick at last years pitching staff numbers overall. I just read a sweet spot blog where the Gints don't crack the top 5 rotations in baseball, blaming regression on VSG and suckiness on BPBZ. In the 5th spot? Arizona... O-kay...

    Team stats, 2011 season. Giants were 1st overall in the majors in: BAA (.232), SLG (.346), a lot to do with 96 HRs given up. (#2 was Philly with 120!), 1st overall in OPS (.655)
    2nd overall behind Philly in ERA with 3.20. 2nd overall behind Atlanta in Ks with 1316.
    3rd overall in WHIP 1.24 behind Philly/Tampa Bay

    Sticking with DrB's thesis they aren't afraid to walk a batter, third highest # of BBs with 559.

    Trending towards the back in SBs allowed with 124 allowed (23rd overall).

    Philly led the majors with only 23 Wild Pitches allowed. The worst? Toronto with 73. 50 extra bases, I'm sure some scoring on those as well! Giants were sixth with 42 WPs.

    Tied for 2nd overall in saves with 52. 6th overall in blown saves with 14. Washington led BSs with 27. Next? World champion Cards with 26. The Phils were first with only 8 BS's. That is pretty impressive. Philly was also 1st in complete games with 18 and shutouts with 21. That's the advantage of Doc H. The Giants only had 3 complete games and 12 shutouts.

    The BAA against and coming in first in OPS despite almost leading the majors in BBs is very impressive. Love our pitching staff.

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    1. Real interesting, not surprising.

      I think most people believe both that V will regress hard and they never thought much of Z. Not that I thought he was worth that money, but the contract obfuscate the fact that he has been a good pitcher even after he lost his early form, Z when not over thinking his contract and abilities has been good for the Giants.

      While I understand the V concerns, as I showed in my analysis of V, his season, while flukey early, he actually pitched well to the end of the season, after a period of badness in August when he exceeded his recent high in IP, finishing strong. Plus, of course he will regress from his seasonal total, but we do not need that from him to be dominant again, he just needs to keep the ERA under 4 and we should be good to go.


      What people do not realize is that we have had bad performances from a number of starters each season and still we had a top three RA in the majors the last three seasons. It should all work out as long as one or both of them can keep thing under 4.

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    2. OGC agree on 100% Voglesong. I think he has learned how to harness his talent. Last year he pounded the strike zone hard with great control - the definition of a Giants pitcher. I think once a 4-pitch power pitcher with control really learns how to mentally pitch to their talent level, then they don't forget it. If anything they refine it. I think Voglesong actually has room for overall season-long improvement given that he exceeded his IP mark in August 2011 and still finished strong. He now knows he is set. A #4 MLB starter with financial and family security - a perfect springboard for great season.

      I also think Voglesong points out a weakness in stats regression. 2011 was his first real season as a mature pitcher, and even then, one chopped up between the minors and majors. I think the Giants staff will overall improve, not regress with Voggie as a solid #4 starter all year. And yes as OGC points out even a Voglesong regression to under 4 will be of real benefit to the Giants.

      Zito not so much. I think he has an effective stretch and then bombs away. Most importantly the Giants can't afford to have a league average starter at #5. The team is simply not built to withstand disaster starts of being 3-5 runs down after the 4th inning and come back to win. I can only hope Surkamp or somebody grabs hold of the #5 spot by July/August.

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  14. Dan Plesac on Hot Stove on MLB Network just predicted Cain would not resign with Giants. I hope he is wring and we get the deal done.

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    1. The easy part of punditry is never having to say you are sorry...

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    2. I predict Plesac will lose his job predicting crap like that regularly. Did he give any reasoning at all?

      Amen, Monterey Shark.

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    3. This reminds me of another blog that posted that Cain might not sign because of the lack of offense. I posted what Roger said below and the author retorted with an edge that "you do not know how he thinks!". And I retorted that I agree, nobody does. I wonder if he got the hint that I meant him? :^)

      Then I noted that while a lot of people presume that he would leave because of the low offense, all the points I made had to do with facts, fact he bought a home here, fact he married a woman here, fact he is only a Giants fan, he grew up not rooting for any team ( or at least he said so publicly), fact he is not about getting top dollar (he could have asked foe more money for his first long term deal but took the same as Lowry).

      I agree, does not mean he will sign, but at least I am using facts to illustrate my case, not supposition.

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  15. Matt married a girl from this area and started a family here. I am thinking that will mean a lot when it comes down to negotiations. Also, I think the Giants have been very good to him as far as giving him raises. He will make $15MM this year and that is pretty good since he was not a super two and only had 3 arbs. I am crossing my fingers that we can keep Cain and Lincecum for another 4-5 years while we groom pitchers such as Mejia, Blackburn, etc.

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    1. Yes, and also he is one of the few athletes to actually live here year round, he bought a home here, which is where they are raising their little girl.

      Also, he is one of the very few athletes I have ever seen who said that he did not root for any team when growing up, so his MLB "imprint" if you will is on the Giants, like the rest of us. As long as the Giants are fair, and they usually are, he should sign.

      The only very small possibility I see is him wanting to provide for his children, a la Sprewell, but he has never exhibited such behavior before. But having a child does change things. And he seems very reasonable, his next deal should get him 8 figures, anybody is set for life with that.

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    2. Oops, meaning that I do not foresee him doing that, but you never really know.

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  16. I just went back and read through the whole Pessimist vs Optimist thing over on MCC. Did anyone else notice that after a particularly outrageous statement someone made about ZIPS projections, Dan Szymborski, the guy who CREATED ZIPS made a brief comment? It looked like everybody in the discussion completely missed who he was. LOL!

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    1. That thread is a mess. I missed the Dan S. Just saw it, he replied to one of the biggest whiners on MCC and then there was a bunch of silly sarcasm.

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    2. I had to bite my tongue all over that thread, and just put down a few constructive comments. One of the biggest laydowns for me was the insinuation about who we left off the playoff roster. I am really sick of haters of Sabean lingering on Jose Guillen and debates about the exact date they brought up Posey. Our players that were there played their heart out. Pat the Bat had a miserable post season. No mention of that luck for Sabey Sabes. The heart of the team, the homegrown pitching staff supplemented by the pen moves he made, buzzsawed through. Without Javy Lopez I don't think we make it through Philly. Yes, Cody Ross came up huge. Every world series team has unlikely heroes. Maybe Brian Wilson will never turn into MoRiv again, but I sure did enjoy the hell out of THAT!

      The last 3 years of baseball, with 2 coming short of even the playoffs, have been absolutely fascinating for me.

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    3. Well, I'm hoping Xanthan was just goofing, he should know ZiPS, he started and writes the Bay City Ball blog, does lots of good analysis there, plus the team of writers he has put together.

      Yeah, this column is the epitome of what I don't care for seeing anymore, like that one at Nirvana where all they do is complain about the off-season. Like the Willie Bloomquist deal. He was clearly a try at an offensive upgrade over Burriss on the bench, so I don't get the uproar and raging over such a potential deal. He provides good speed, doesn't hit for much, but better probably than Burriss, and he provides a RHB off the bench who puts the ball into play and don't strike out much. And he's actually decent batting against LHP, as an injury replacement guy when Franchez DLs again. His major negatives are age and poor defense, but for $1.9M, you can't expect to get that much.

      Plus, as I've often noted, 25th guy on the roster, just $1.9M, roughly double Fontenot. Pocket change not really worth stressing about and nice insurance for inevitable Franchez DL plus platoon backup for SS with Fontenot.

      And people still act like Belt will hit his projections, easy peasy. As we saw last season, not so easy. Look at Matt Williams, took him a number of years to figure it out before he became a regular. Going with Belt as the starting LF is a huge gamble for the team's chances of making the playoffs, he had better deliver or else we could have another 2011. It is better this way, he'll be competing with Nate Schierholtz for the last starting spot, I'm completely OK with that, Nate has been a good 4th OF, and could slide back into that role easily if Belt outperforms him in spring.

      And Posey vs. Kendall? Kendall had his leg bone sticking out of his leg, if I remember goriness of his injury. Posey's wasn't even in the same solar system, as bad as it was.

      And injuries! He's 27! He's past his peak, let the injuries come, lets get rid of him, that is a TangoTiger rule that has to be followed! Tango would probably cringe at that statement. Reminds me vaguely of a sci-fi movie where people are "removed" when they turn 30. If he is that worried about injuries, he should not follow any sport at all, injuries can and will occur, to young, to old, to prime of life people.

      Nobody can ensure that Lincecum or Cain will get through 2012 injury free. No team can compete very well if they lost a player of Lincecum's or Cain's stature to injury, their season is usually shot. The Giants actually did very well in 2011 considering the injuries, that was due to Bochy's ability to win in 1-run games. That's just a fact, trying to plan a season based on a worse case scenario like that basically just dooms the person to just quitting and moving to a new job because the injuries will always be there, go tell Foppert that his best pitching will be at 27, tell Nolan Ryan that he should have been injured and performing poorly in his 40's, they would laugh.

      Then the guy is willing to jettison most of the bullpen, he blasts Affelt, Lopez, and Casilla, thinking that Runzler and Verdugo is actually an adequate replacement for them, then he challenges Sabean to trade for Alexei Ramirez, without giving any realistic idea of how to get him. How about we challenge him to get the Giants Elvis Andrus and once he figures that out, get in touch with Sabean and get the deal done.

      That's why I don't go to MCC much anymore, these articles (and there are many of these) just drive me crazy reading them, I see so many false statements or misunderstandings that I could spend a day or two just commenting on that one thread, and what I get for my time is a lot of snark and backlash from the haters there. No thank you, I got better uses of my time.

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    4. I've got into discussions before with the poster of that thread about the Bullpen. He refuses to acknowledge the concept of a high leverage situation. Generally he has avoided any further discussions on various topics such as Crawford (he loves Jose Reyes to death), the lefties, the budget, etc, preferring a quick snark reply or nothing at all. I feel comfortable calling him my least favorite poster on the forum, and a perfect snapshot of snark, sabermetric dogma, immaturity and blind hatred with complete inflexibility for others viewpoint - yes, he even annoys mcc'ers.

      I didn't bother replying to the absurdity of comparing Kendall to Posey, the befuddled twisted logic on Tango's study or the pen, I've said my peace on that already. The whole thing is beating your head against a wall. I'll bust out once in a while and zing the guy though. He gets way too comfortable with the slap em on the back the front office is stupid comments that happen all the time there.

      Still, one thing I've found is MCC is a diverse community and its good to have your ideas challenged. Even cynics can bring up some mighty fine points. Its just when they all chime in together it gets pretty tiring. There were parts of that discussion that were pretty good. And the post that it was in response to was good as well.

      Not sure which Nirvana you're referring to, DrB and I posted in the latest one. Come on OGC - a little critique of the front office is good - Willie Bloomquist does just enough to keep on playing in the majors. 2 year deal for that? No power, not much range, just enough plate discipline - he K's a fair amount actually. Sure you shouldn't freak out too much about it, but for me its the years as much as the dollahz. I'd call that a waste of time personally, and I'd prefer Manny Burriss (gulp). Getting in a bidding war where you have to elevate to 2 years for mediocre production, its time to lay it down. Which, by the way, Sabean has been good at this year.

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    5. I just get annoyed beyond belief at people who rail at moves they think Sabean wanted to do but didn't. First of all, I don't think any of us know what's really going on in Sabes' mind. Second, who cares what he might have wanted to do? HE DIDN'T DO IT!

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  17. I agree, I get very annoyed at that. But I'm trying to get OGC to criticize the Brain Trust right now, DrB, don't start introducing logic into this conversation!

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