The Giants turned into pumpkins again as the offense laid down and died in front of the A's pitching in the opener of the Bay Bridge Series. Key Lines:
Ryan Vogelsong- 5.1 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 2 BB, 4 K's. ERA= 3.92. Vogey was a gamer for 4 innings before faltering. By that time, it was fairly clear that the Giants offense was not going to score any runs on the night, so it hardly mattered.
Jesse Chavez(A's)- 6 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 9 K's. ERA= 3.09. Much like Vogey, Chavez is a guy who kicked around a lot of places and kind of came out of nowhere to pitch well for a team that appears to be at least bound for the playoffs. He was painting the corners with a variety of pitches last night. It is sometimes hard to tell with the Giants whether the opposing pitcher has great stuff or they just aren't hitting. Not sure about the latter, but in the parts of the game I saw, Chavez had pinpoint control of the strike zone.
The loss dropped the Giants to a full game behind the idle Dodgers in the NL West.
Madison Bumgarner tries to even the series tonight facing Sonny Gray, who is a pretty tough customer in his own right.
Maybe Sabes was right when he suggested this team might not be worth investing in. I mean, Pablo was out of the lineup, but does anyone think his presence would have made a difference here? A closer certainly would not have nor would a CF and/or 2B. Just one game but there have been a lot of these lately where it is hard to see 1 or 3 additions making any difference in the outcome.
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I don't know about the rest of you but I have found myself looking at these other pitchers performance against us and wondering where these guys have come from? We are making them all look like Greg Maddux!
ReplyDeleteI said yesterday that I am concerned that we have enough trading chips to fill the holes we have. We are going to have to mix and match a couple of pieces we can get, hopes someone in the minors maybe steps up and that the regulars get on track again. Lots of moving pieces.
It's weird to say this about a team that's only a game out, but should the Giants be seller? Maybe we should see what we can get for Pablo, Vogey, and even Pagan?
ReplyDeleteThey should be buyers. I don't know for sure if he's available, but Steve Cishek would give them a lights out closer and move Casilla and Affeldt back to setup roles. They probably have a few more games to decide if Panik is the guy at 2B, but if they really want to be serious contenders, they probably need to swing a trade for Daniel Murphy. I really think that is about all they need to do. They probably won't win the NL West, but with the current Wild Card configuration, they should NOT throw in the towel.
DeleteI don't think it is wierd and if done right I think we can do it and still improve now and for the future. Other than a few hot streaks, Pablo's production has not been that great and there is a chance we may not want to pay him next year. I think we would be able to find someone that replicates his current production, maybe even exceeds it a little, get some minor leaguers and free up cash for next year. Vogey, as much as I like him, would be replaceable perhaps even internally (Petit?) and might garner us a usefull piece for the bench or a mid level prospect and free up some cahs for the rest of the year. Pagan I think would be a tougher sell for the front office to move. I don't believe it is the only reason, but we are two different clubs offensively when he's in vs when he's out. We'd have to feel comfortable that we have a replacement for him which I don't see us having a solution for.
ReplyDelete"Other than a few hot streaks, Pablo's production has not been that great…." You mean his .310 BA over 200 AB's in May and June?
DeleteDoc, I think he meant "He is hitless in the ABs where he did not get a hit".
DeleteIf you take out any players "hot streak", his numbers would not be good. Conversely, if you remove a players slumps, he would be a HOFer.
Doc, he did most of his damage in May. In June he did hit .301 but only had 1 HR and a slugging % of under .400. In his limited time in July he has hit .143 and is out currently after getting hit by a pitch that he swung at. His production has gone down the last 3 years. You can all it a "slump" but I see it as a trend and my point was it would not be difficult to replace the production we have gotten from Pablo the last couple of years and maybe pick up talent and save some money in the long run if we traded him. I'd rather take that gamble than hold onto him, miss the playoffs because we do have so many holes and lose him to FA at the end of the season for nothing.
DeleteFirst of all it's just 14 AB's in July so far. As for the pitch he swung at and got hit by, it started out as a swing, but then he was trying to check his swing and get out of the way at the same time and it ended up swing. Just a bit unfair to simply say he got hit by a pitch he swung at.
DeleteThe whole Franchise is in some deep poop right now. Sabean didn't sell last year and he won't this year. The wine and cheese crowd could care less about prospects or the farm. They wanna see the stars play. Selling any of that star power off would jeopardize the all mighty sell out streak and the FO will never do that.
ReplyDeleteSabean can bag on the farm all he want's, but those are his prospects. He drafted them, he turned his back on the consensus, and he's the one who put the future in those players hands. He doesn't get to cry now that the cupboard is bare, cause it was his job to keep it full. Now we have holes at 3B, 2B, LF and SP. He's going to have to think long and hard on how he wants to fill those this off season. Throwing 6 figure contracts at everyone to keep the gang together aint the way to go. We're going to end up like the Phillies if that keeps up - old, expensive, and non competitive.
On top of all of that, the pen has fallen to pieces! Romo lost his slider. Machi was riding fluke numbers and is crashing back down to earth. Gutierrez was never that good in the first place.
Despite all of that, Sabean will do what he does best, sit on his hands when times are tough. He's a great GM, but he has hit a wall lately with productive dumpster dives and late round draft picks being every day guys. As a result the big league team is hemorrhaging vital fluids on an almost nightly basis. We have NO depth and most of our talent is in AA or lower.
Can't have it both way, mistgl. Either Sabean is a great GM or he's not. You can't write 3 paragraphs bagging on everything he's done wrong then write one phrase saying "He's a great GM, but…."
DeleteAnd since when has Sabes ever sat on his hands when times were tough? He has always gone out on bolstered the club at the deadline save last year when there was clearly no point.
Ballclubs don't try to trade out of weakness. Losing a 9.5 game lead in the divison in a few weeks is definitely considered weakness. I can see them going after Daniel Murphy because he is controllable in 2015 and would fill a hole next year. However, since the Mets sense our weakness the pricetag will be very high. Like Crick and Susac high. That is just stupid. Murphy is a one dimensional player. He can hit but his defense and base running skills are not that great. DrB said the name Steve Cishek which also makes sense since Romo is probably on his way out or takes a serious pay cut. But I do not see them making a trade for anyone who is a free agent next year unless it is a small deal like Culberson for Scutaro.
ReplyDeleteI really think the guy we need to look at is Martin Prado. He fills an immediate hole at 2B and has a lot of experience at 3B for next year when Pablo says googbye and goes to NY or DET. He is cheap and controllable until 2016. If he is put at 3B he does not block anybody in the minors.
How likely do you think trades within the division are? I guess Scutaro came from Colorado, so at least we know it is possible.
DeleteAnd the likelihood of a trade for Prado, who at times hits cleanup and who cost Arizona Justin Upton to acquire, a trade within the division furthermore, is what? And for whom?
DeleteAt this point, the problem is organizational, not about the roster alone.
ReplyDeleteThe development problems on the farm repeat again and again. We shouldn't be seeing similar patterns between drastically different players. They've given up on guys who produce elsewhere. It means the talent is there but they can't utilize it, or polish these guys. How many no confidence votes have we heard from Sabean? It strikes me as political, and it does detour some careers. Virtually every call up has been scapegoated at some point. Or compared to Posey in some fashion. Maybe the Giants are too in the business of creating celebrities and too self aware of the clubs history?
At some point it has to be coaching. How many other clubs suffer from overly aggressive lack of plate discipline? Any in a pennant race, that can't hold down 1st place with a 10 game lead? How many teams have 2 starters suffer from issues out of the stretch? And it happens to be the two longest active as Giants. The dependency on heroics from single teamates is also a problem, by extension a lack of motivation from the staff itself, none of whom knew what to do with their own success coaching a best team in baseball (while it lasted).
Given up on guys who produce elsewhere? Pretty damn few. I haven't seen anyone "scapegoated" and so have no idea what you might mean.
DeleteYeah, Anon. Just exactly who has "produced" elsewhere after Sabes gave up on them? I the meantime, I think they have done a very nice job with Crawford and Belt, two guys who were not high first round draft picks. Panik looks very promising too. The current tailspin started with some bad luck games and a closer meltdown then snowballed with a string of injuries. I just don't see this huge organizational problem you are referring to.
DeleteThe only thing I remember from a few days back was Sabean or Bochy (or both) challenged the players to be mad (don't remember the exact word, but essentially to have more emotional energy).
ReplyDeleteI don't remember if the fans were asked to be mad as well.