OK, team! I'm not gonna lie. This one is pretty simple. The Royals bullpen beat the Giants bullpen. Both starting pitchers got into trouble in the 6'th inning of a tie game. The Royals bullpen shut it down. The Giants bullpen melted down. That's really all you need to know about this game. Key Lines:
Gregor Blanco- 1 for 4, HR(1), BB. BA= .286. Blanco led off the game with a tremendous 8 pitch AB which ended with him turning around a 98 MPH FB off Yordano Ventura for a quick 1-0 lead. That was pretty much the high water mark for the Giants in this game.
Rest of Lineup: Every member of the starting lineup got 1, just 1, hit. Sandoval and Belt were able to hit doubles in one inning to plate another run, but otherwise, it was the definition of scattered hits.
Jake Peavy- 5 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 2 BB, 1 K. ERA= 7.20. Pretty much what we've seen from Peavy so far in the postseason. Started shaky, settled down but then got shaky again in the 6'th inning. Unlike his opposing starter, when he got shaky in the 6'th, his bullpen brought their gas cans with them instead of their firehoses.
Jean Machi- 0.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 0 BB, 0 K. ERA= -.--. Right now, Machi can't get the ball down. He has terrible command of his fastball and is hanging the forkball. He probably needs an inning or two in a low-leverage situation to get back on track. Bochy may not have that luxury.
Hunter Strickland- 0.0 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 0 BB, 0 K. ERA= 18.00. Any thoughts that Hunter Strickland had gotten back on track last night went out the window in a hurry. In fact, they went clear out of the ballpark! I would think the Giants have to be re-thinking any plans they had for Hunter for next year too. Wow! Now THAT is disappointing!
Tim Lincecum- 1.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K. ERA= 0.00. Timmy looked terrific. With the preceding meltdown in mind, it was looking like Timmy might be grabbing a suddenly expanded role for the rest of the Series. Then, on the likely last Royals batter of the game, he slipped or tripped on his follow-through and apparently wrenched his back. He threw another pitch, called for the trainer and was escorted off the field. Santiago Casilla came in and retired the batter on one pitch.
The Series now takes a day off to travel to San Francisco where it will resume with Game 3 on Friday night with Tim Hudson facing lefty Jason Vargas. The Giants come back with a split on the road, but with serious questions about half their bullpen and a bunch of starters who can't seem to get much past the 5'th inning. Bochy and Rags have their work cut out for them.
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didnt get why they chose machi over kontos for the post
ReplyDeletestrickland has tons of potential....but he needs his secondary pitches to work and needs to work on better movement on his fastball
bochy was due to make some bad decisions....lets hope its now out of his system
while timmy did look great, it was still mop up duty against a team that already knew their pen would not allow anymore runs
peavy was very good at holding the runners at first....
differences between this ws and the other 2 giants recently appeared in are quite obvious
kc are grinders and have an actual pen
they are built to beat you in the late innings
giants do not have as overpowering a rotation as they did in 10 or 12
both hudson and vogey must pitch the games of their careers....lets hope their is some gas left in the tank
not a single espn socal radio affiliate brodcast the game....not one...nor did they turn it over to one of their sister stations....the station that broadcast it is a non sports spanish station....this is unacceptable
i watched a few innings through the brit feed, which had rex the wonder dog hutler as the color guy....he started screaming "I GOTTA GO" in the 6th....after cain got on....what a doof
my keys to the rest of the series....giants gotta sweep at home....if it goes back to kc, all bets are off
bacci
Maybe you could point out the bad decisions Bochy made, because this all looks a lot more like players not executing than bad decisionmaking to me.
Deletehe kept peavy in too long
Deletehe kept travis in, instead of going with defense.....travis has no arm....cain got home because of that
and did you actually feel comfortable with bochy bringing in machi with men on base?
and just because hunter looked good in a mop up situation, doesnt mean that the next night, he would do ok in a pressure situation
not that it mattered...once it was 3 to 2, game over
doc, sometimes you gotta stop being an apologist for bochy...he is human
bacci
Bacci, managing in hindsight is easy. Have to agree with DocB, Bochy's decisions were okay with me at the time. And yes, the execution and results sucked. BTW, if you're going to knock Bochy for Peavy, Machi and Strickland then you got to praise him for Lopez.
DeleteAnd yes, sometimes the players are human too.
Sorry Bacci, but I don't agree with any of that. Bochy's decisions in this particular game were fine. The execution by the players was what failed.
DeletePeavy looked great in the 4'th and 5'th innings. Taking him out after allowing 2 baserunners in the 6'th was exactly the right time to take him out.
Ishikawa does not have a strong arm, but those runners would have scored on Melky Cabrera.
Gotta give Machi and Strickland a chance there. Better to find out in Game 2 if you can't use them later than waiting until it's a do or die game.
Bacci, you gotta stop being a Bochy basher. The man is a HOF manager!
Just a question. If Lincecum is hurt, is it possible to replace him even if the WS roster is set ?
ReplyDeleteGo Giants
GIP
Yes, that is allowable in the rules. good luck figuring out what Bochy does though.
DeleteI think we are in a tough spot. You hope Hudson and Vogey can go 6 and limit the Royals to around 2. Then you have to rely on Affeldt, Lopez, Romo and Casilla the rest of the way. I don't think Bochy can trust anyone else right now. Mach's stuff is sinking from letter high to belt high, Strickland is putting fastballs with little movement right over the plate, and Timmy looked effectively wild tonight but not right. Does Petit start getting 6/7th inning duties now?
ReplyDeleteStrickland, dude, man up. Yep, bitter, bitter pills. But melting down out there, at Perez of all the Royals, was very bad juju. 5 HRs, not a coincidence. Repeat after me: "It's not you, it's me."
ReplyDeleteGotta agree, Timmy, while effective, did not look right even before he got hurt.
Grasping a bit at straws, but I think the Giants are better served getting Petit in there sooner, before the wheels start coming off of Huddy, Vogey or Peavy. Not Bochy's style, but I'm wondering the merits of finding a starting slot for him. I'm thinking game 6 if we get that far.
Buster is looking flat at the plate. Hasn't looked solid since the 18. He's knocked a few key singles, but not driving the ball with any kind of power.
Travis' inexperience out there shows. Not only a relatively poor arm, but he takes and odd route to the ball and comes up throwing awkwardly.
Both games blowouts, but losing squads have to feel differently. KC knows that they ran into a buzzsaw of pitcher. But multiple holes exposed for the Giants.
Couple of days can make a big difference. We'll see.
Dr. B was astute to point out that lost among the bull pen meltdown, there was little offense from the Giants yesterday. Peavy performed better than I expected given his recent history in AL parks. I would have gotten Petite in there by the 3 or 4th, but I don't have 2 WS rings and I fear their big 3 relievers. Having achieved the basic goal Tuesday, Bochy tested Machi and gambled on Strickland based on his previous outing. Why? I have no idea, maybe because it was tied and he was thinking about extra innings? I would have gone straight to Affeldt after Peavy and haven't heard a good reason for not doing it that way.
ReplyDeleteGive Bochy and the pitching staff credit for testing Strickland down the stretch, but unfortunately they missed in his evaluation somewhere. I have to go back and check but, it might be that Strickland isn't as comfortable as he needs to be with men on, which lead to the situation yesterday.
They are very lucky that Ishi hasn't been more exposed and if they win the WS it will be quiet a feat with a sub-par LF, a shaky bull pen and aged starters, all of which can be layed at the feet of Sabean.
22SS, the fact that we are three wins from a third WS can be "layed" at the feet of Sabes too.
DeleteShaky bullpen is his fault? Aged starters? Really, those aged starters stepped in for Timmy and Cain and got us here. Okay, I'll grant you LF. Get a grip, every team in the playoffs was better on paper than the Giants and lookie where we are. Enjoy!
Shark, I'm enjoying it for sure, since I never thought they could even make the playoffs. You can't make me change my mind about who is on the team though, because for the most part, Sabean supplies Bochy. Yes, those aged starters stepped up, but it is a long season and their age can't be denied and probably will play a roll in their performance which will cascade to the bullpen. The bull pen which was stocked with 50% reliable and 50% unknown/ unreliable guys, thanks in some part to Sabean's choices of what to give Bochy.
DeleteI can't make you change your mind either, because the facts as I recall them haven't. The bullpen until yesterday has been sterling in the postseason. My recollection is that it entered yesterday's bad game with a better postseason ERA than the KC pen. Sabean gave Bochy a LF platoon of Morse and Blanco, and that would have been acceptable had it not been for Pagan's season-ending injury and Morse's injuries, compounded by the two freak accidents that kept Belt out for the majority of the season, thus forcing Morse to first. I would be surprised if you could name me a number of GMs who have so deep a team that every position is covered handsomely when multiple injuries strike. This GM has his team in the World Series.
DeleteI have to admit I am weary of sideline critics, who don't know the players, GMing and managing with next-day tsk-tsking, shaking their wise heads knowingly, and readying their sad recriminations. I'm already girding myself from an offseason in which those same amateurs hold forth on whether or not the Giants are spending their money prudently, without any actual knowledge of the team's finances and choices.
+1 Campanari.
DeleteWe all criticize management at one time or another, during the season and offseason. No one is perfect - us or management.
DeleteWe are all amateurs here. And professionals make plenty of mistakes too.
It's not 'my criticism is valid and yours is not.'
It's not, 'only I can criticize and you can't.'
None of us is right often enough, much less always right.
The sure way, then, is not based on knowledge, but one's faith in the team, unwavering support, and the courage to dare to hope and dream, knowing fate is fickle, but one still gives it all one has, just as the team does as well.
Campanari - Yes, the bullpen has been good statistically and results wise or they wouldn't be in the WS. But, are you really defending Sabean's decision to give Bochy a rookie who has given up a record number of post-season home runs? You are right, few GMs have the $ and knowledge to have replacements for every potential injury, but they all have access to the trade market and that is where Sabean had the chance to address LF and the bullpen. Do you really believe that the GM is above criticism and should be followed blindly? My final comment was supposed to be that it was going to be a great triumph for the organization if they win the WS given who is being run out there and I erred by implying who would be at fault if they didn't. If you don't like tsk-tsking from amateurs what are you doing reading anything more than Dr. B's comments? He is just about the only one who comments here without criticism of some aspect of the organization/ game. If you want to hang out with a more forgiving crowd than me go see the rose tinted glass wearers at Giants Extra.
DeleteBuyLowSellLower- I appreciate your sentiment and I will try to keep my comments supportive.
BLSL, I could not agree less with you. Anyone who uses methods other than knowledge is in my opinion just venting, and when that venting ("I would have done X when Bochy did Y") is supposed to carry more public weight than a statement like "I like the smell of lilacs," it's like rah-rah or "boo" or "boo-hop." I read DrB because his analyses are based on knowledge and thought, whatever his faith and hopes and dreams and wishes might be. He brings to the discussion of the Giants an analogue of the scientific method that I can hardly doubt he brings to his profession. That's what's congenial to me, at least, and that's what I look for. Cheering and booing and rejoicing and ruing I can pretty much do for myself. Facts, reasons, and analytic judgments--that is where I need supplementation, correction, and cognitive reinforcement at different times, and that is what I seek in DrB, Shankbone, OGC, et al., with a good chance of finding them.
DeleteFor boo-hop above read "boo-hoo" as autocorrectedly made incorrect.
DeleteCampanari, it's life that people disagree, because people appreciate the game differently.
DeleteDrB has his perspective and I believe he is open to how other fans see and enjoy the game...aesthetically, emotionally, various degrees of technically knowledge, which is never certain.
Knowledge, even scientific knowledge, we have to remember that science is about the 'current best explanation.'
How far off this 'current best explanation' is from 'what it is,' no one has any idea. All we know is that it is the 'current best explanation.'
To me, basing on baseball knowledge is not the sure way. Only through the true heart can you persist in the adventure.
Hey team! Let's not get into an argument about me. I'm just a fan posting his thoughts on the Giants. If people find that worth reading and commenting on, it is gratifying. If not, that's OK too. I welcome alternative points of view as long as they are presented in a collegial and open minded way.
DeleteThank you, DrB, for having the website.
DeleteBLSL, well, fine--people do appreciate the game differently, and each of my statements was qualified by an "i" or "in my opinion" or "congenial to me." All I did was clarify where you and I differ, in fact differ so much that some of your phrases ("the sure way," "the true heart") don't really make sense to me. But then, they don't have to, since you don't expect others to cleave to them.
DeleteI didn't take 22SS's statements to be in that vein, of what for want of a better word I will call faith. 22 seemed to me to be appealing to reason and logic, and in terms of reason and logic I responded that I objected to "tsk-tsking from amateurs" who don't look at the facts on which reason and logic reasonably and logically rest. Some of these facts, for example what a player looks like in his bullpen throwing before the game, what advice Bochy gets from Righetti, and how an available pitcher matches up with a specific hitter in a given situation, are very largely unavailable to amateurs, though highly important. Under these circumstances, I would expect considerable modesty from those amateurs, and hesitance in declaring judgments wrong when experts in possession of all the facts make them. Of course the results may be bad, visibly and publicly so; but I assume that one awards praise and blame for the process, not what happen to be the results. When I read 22SS blaming Sabean for not fixing a bullpen that 22SS agrees "has been good statistically" and in terms of results, all the time knowing that Sabean brought in a group of minor-leaguers (Strickland, Cordier, Bochy, Kickham) to be vetted for bullpen help so as to improve it further, he makes little sense. He (or she) thinks I object to criticism of the organization, but what I object to is something quite different.
"N" is for Knowledge - US Army Ranger School c. 1991
Delete"Knowledge is Good" - Faber College c. 1962
Let's Go Giants! Huddy World Series Win! Good karma by the Bay!
NWGiantsFan
DtF!!!
Sometimes it seems like Bochy and Sabean can't win. If they trade Strickland and Cordier for a veteran reliever, they hate rookies and young players. If they don't make a trade, they're being negligent for relying on unproven rookies.
DeleteI think the problem with Strickland is that he wasn't appropriately vetted during September. He only pitched 7 innings the entire month and I believe few of those were in high leverage situations. I would have liked to have seen him tested more. Obviously there is something wrong if the guy has given up 5 home runs in the postseason. I mean, if you throw 97 mph, guys shouldn't be knocking you around like its batting practice.
ReplyDeleteHe may walk few guys, but maybe that's because he throws fat strikes. Guys in AA might have a problem wit a 97 mph heater--not so guys in the majors. I think Strickland's performance in the NLDS and NLCS was enough for Bochy to realize Kontos was a better fit for the WS roster. He has a more consistent breaking ball, something Royals hitters have a hard time with.
All in all, the bullpen blew this one, especially Strickland. I do like Hudson's chances in Game 3. We just have to hope the Giants can beat the lefty, Vargas. If the Giants lead after 6, I think they are in good shape.
I dunno if there is something wrong with Strickland. I'm not saying he's right, nor do I really think Bochy effectively used him last night. But to write him off for next season seems a bit premature. He's still got a 100 mph fast ball. What he needs more work with a secondary ptich (all his slider was moving nice for a while). He's only 26 and way too young to give up on. I do think he probably is out of the pen for next year at the start of the season, but that just means Cordier will probably get a first shot. Timmy's positive performance probably cements him in the pen (which might not be bad).
ReplyDeleteMight not be such a bad idea for Strickland to start 2015 in Sacramento. Work on some fastball grips that generate more movement. He can do wonders with a well located #1 featuring 2 grips and a good slider.
ReplyDeleteWant 100mph fire. Strickland will be there again in the WS and he will be on the roster to open 2015. Romo is gone and Strickland is in. Bring on the heat.
DeleteIt's been more like 97 MPH fire in the last few games he's pitched.
DeleteI thought after five we should have gone to Petit. Peavy was getting hit but he got us five. I thought he should have also pinched ran for ish with Perez and sac bunt, but no guarantees that would work. Realistically he had only Romo in the 6th but then they would have been screwed. So basically its on Machi to get that out
ReplyDeletePeavy looked strong in the 4'th and 5'th innings. I would not have brought Petit in to start the 6'th. Once there were runners on base, Petit is not the best choice because as a long man/starter he is not comfortable entering the game with runners already on base. Once the tie was broken, it made no sense to burn Petit in a losing cause.
DeleteAgree
DeleteOkay I'm throwing this out there...
ReplyDeleteHave MadBum start game 4 and game 7 on short rest. Let's see how Huddy does first. But frankly, MadBum is THE difference maker between KC and SF. He can carry the workload. Let your ace carry you to the WS title.
Thoughts...
That's desperate, but we might just be that desperate.
DeleteIf that worked out, he'd be a legend. But most likely we'd be heading down the Kershaw road going short rest with Madison.
How desperate, I think that depends on how Huddy and the team does on Friday.
DeleteGuys like Koufax, Drysdale and Bob Gibson used to pitch 3 games in a World Series and think nothing of it. Can't do it now. Pitchers just aren't in that rhythm. Too much risk of blowing out Bummy's arm and losing him for future years, and yeah, Kershaw.
DeleteI know MadBum would vote for it.
DeleteOf course he would! That does not make it the right thing to do.
DeleteKoufax had only a six-year dominant career, and had hemorrhages in his pitching arm with constant pain before he had to quit. Giants fans might remember him on short rest in the Giants-Dodgers playoff in '62, when he got knocked out of the box. I would let Bumgarner have normal rest.
DeleteI would rather not blow out Bums arm by having him throw on short rest twice in a row. Dirty Orel was never the same after '88.
ReplyDeleteMachi was very good during the season, I can't see how people are so quick to want to toss the guy after one bad outing
I hated seeing Hunter's meltdown but he is young and the vets will teach him. He needs to quit staring down the runners or someone will talk crap to him and he will deserve it. Bochy is in love with his arm and I'm pretty fond of it as well, I hope he makes the team out of spring training and has a cutter when he gets there. The key is to probably not pitch him on back to back nights.
People are quick to not trust Machi in a short season because in Sept/Oct he has given up 9 runs as compared to giving up 10 the entire season before that. In those 11 games he has faced 39 batters and given up 8 hits, 3 home runs, walked 4 and struck out 9, while only getting 1 ground into double play which is why he was inserted last game. Opponents may have only batted .235 in that time but their OPS was .895. Thanks you baseball reference.
DeleteI trust Bochy, his coaches and Posey are learning more about Strickland than Strickland appears to be learning himself and the big league playoffs because it seems pretty likely they are going to need him again before the end of the series.
Couldn't bring Petit in with both Hudson and Vogey throwing the next couple of games. Peavy was keeping game close and you just don't know how many innings you are going to get out of Huddy and Vogey either, you can't throw Petit out there every time the starter only goes 5.
ReplyDeleteGames are going to have a different dynamic in SF. No DH and Ned wil have to manage the pitching differently than he normally does. Whereas Bochy has proven to be a master at that game, my money is on Ned to panic at least once with his moves and cost them a game or two like both Mattingly and Williams did with their teams. Bochy is not going to flinch.
donnie baseball about to be out of a job
ReplyDeletejust announced that joe madden has opted out of his rays contract
that was quick
bacci
Hmmm…. that is interesting! It will be interesting to see what the sabermetric darlings can do with that collection of overpaid egos with a rapidly contracting payroll.
DeleteIf he wants a challenge opposite of what he has been doing that is where he will go.
ReplyDeleteWord is Maddon is probably going to the Cubs.
Deletehe isnt a young man
Deletewhy would he want to go to the mess that is the cubs?
bacci