With the prospects for Buster Posey making it back as the starting catcher for the San Francisco Giants, the urgency to find an alternative has faded, but the memory of Buster going down with that awful injury is a reminder that starting catchers often don't have long careers. It's one of the more scarce positions in baseball, so it is a good idea to have a solid pipeline of catching talent coming up through the system at all times. In that regard, the Giants are as well stocked at catcher in their organization as any team in baseball.
Yesterday seemed to be open season for snarky comments about the Giants farm system over on Fangraphs. One such comment noted the presence of 3 "backup" catchers in the Giants top 15 prospects. It wasn't clear if this was a commentary on the talent of the prospects or on the presence of Buster Posey having a stranglehold on the starting catcher position for the forseeable future. In either case, it was wildly off base. Let's take a look at the Giants stockpile of young catching talent:
AAA
Hector Sanchez 5'11", 235 lbs. B-S, T-R. BD: 11/17/1989. High A .302/.338/.533, 11 HR in 212 AB. AAA .261/.315/.340 in 153 AB. MLB .258/.324/.323 in 31 AB. Hector Sanchez has been a favorite sleeper prospect to Giants prospect watchers for a long time. He was enjoying a fine season in San Jose when his stock suddenly skyrocketed when the Giants started desperately looking for someone to step in after Buster's injury. Hector was rushed, first to Fresno, then to SF. As sometimes happens in Giantsland, he mostly sat on the bench after all that frantic activity and was later sent back down to San Jose only to be called back when rosters expanded in September. He did manage to put together some impressive AB's for the Giants and handled himself in a very mature fashion through all the ups and downs. He's currently hitting .412 in Venezuela. Don't get kidnapped, Hector! He will probably start 2012 in either Richmond or Fresno. Good switch-hitting catchers are extremely valuable commodities. I think Hector is likely to be a starting catcher in the majors someday, probably soon. Whether it will be with the Giants remains to be seen.
Jackson Williams 5'11", 205 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 5/14/1986. AA/AAA .191/.288/.287. Williams was a controversial supplemental round pick in the 2007 draft. He's touted to be a superior defensive catcher, but the bat has never come around.
AA
Johnny Monell 5'11", 205 lbs. B-L, T-R. BD: 3/27/2986. .249/.334/.394, 10 HR in 386 AB. Between Hector Sanchez' wild ride and Tommy Josephs's breakout, Johnny Monell was practically forgotten last year. Those are not great numbers, but they are also not terrible for the Eastern League. I think he did well enough to deserve a promotion to Fresno where I wouldn't be shocked to see much more offensive production. Catchers who can hit lefthanded are valuable commodities. I think Monell has a minimum future as a long time backup catcher in the majors, possibly more.
HIGH A
Tommy Joseph 6'1", 220 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 7/16/1991. .270/.317/.471, 33 2B, 22 HR in 514 AB. Tommy Joseph has always had "light tower power." The question was how often it would get displayed as he struggled to make contact. Tommy took a big step forward in the second half last season hitting .301 after the Cal League All-Star break. His BA's the last 3 full months of the season were .297, .299, .299. He also made great strides in his catching defense and was rated the top defensive catcher in the Cal League by BA at the end of the season. He was the second youngest player in the Cal League to boot. He should move up to AA where he will face a stiff test of his hitting skills. He's young enough that he can easily afford to repeat a level on his way up though.
Alex Burg 6'0", 190 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 8/9/1987. .298/.369/.550 with 24 2B, 14 HR in 262 AB. Here's my sleeper of sleepers! Burg played 3 or 4 positions for San Jose, including catcher, after a mid-season placement from extended spring training and just tore the Cal League up. He was drafted as a catcher out of Washington State in 2010 and hit .245/.331/.443 in 3 stops that year showing good excellent Iso's, so I'm inclined to believe his Cal League numbers are not a fluke. Should move up to AA and continue his utility role. Do you realize how valuable a utility bat like that who can play catcher is to a baseball team? Oh man, watch this kid!
LOW A
Jeff Arnold 6'2", 205 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 1/13/1988. .213/.293/.340, 6 HR. Don't have a scouting report on his D but it would have to be very good to overcome a batting line like that, especially in this organization.
SHORT SEASON
Mike Murray 5'11", 205 lbs. B-L, T-R. BD: 4/24/1988. .326/.394/.459, 6 HR. Signed as an undrafted FA in 2010, he essentially repeated the level after hitting .319 last year for reasons that are unclear. Maybe defense? Maybe just too crowded at higher levels? He shared catching duties with 2 other guys we will list and a lot of his AB's were as a DH. Nothing wrong with the bat that I can see.
Dan Burkhart 5'11", 215 lbs. B-L, T-R. BD: 3/6/1989. SS .285/.329/.438, 4 HR in 144 AB. Low A .217/.265/.261 in 46 AB. 10th round draft pick out of Ohio State in 2010. Also essentially repeating the level after hitting .328 last year. Is there room for all these guys?
Joe Staley 6'1", 235 lbs. B-S, T-R. BD: 5/8/1989. .280/.383/.490, 8 HR in 157 AB. 8'th round pick in 2010, played AZL last year. Bat looks promising. Again, where do all these guys fit?
ROOKIE AZL
Eric Sim 6'2", 215 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 1/3/1989. .352/.438/.586, 6 HR, 5 SB in 145 AB. Got in a few games in 2010 hitting just .108. Raked this year but at a much too low a level.
Myles Schroder 5'11", 180 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 8/1/1987. .282/.308/.445. Given the birthdate, you have to think he's pretty much an organizational player.
Gabriel Cornier 6'0", 190 lbs. B-S, T-R. BD: 6/10/1992. .130/.259/.261, 1 HR in 23 AB. DSL graduate. Obviously didn't get much of a look.
DSL
Luis Vasquez 5'10", 170 lbs. B-L, T-R. BD: 3/20/1991. .262/.349/.303. Hit .325 over his last 10 games. Old for the DSL.
Fernando Pujadas 6'1", 179 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 1/2/1992. .256/.316/.400, 3 HR in 90 AB. Showed a bit of power. 19 is still pretty old for the DSL.
2011 DRAFTEE
Andrew Susac 6'1", 205 lbs. B-R, T-R. BD: 3/22/1990. Oregon State .298/.429/.525, 5 HR. Susac had his season interrupted by a hamate fracture in his left hand. He returned to finish the season, but hard to tell how much it might have affected his game. BA rated him as having the best power bat in the Giants draft, although he did not hit a lot of HR's in college with just 2 in 2010. Rated a late first round talent by most analysts, the Giants grabbed him in round 2 when he fell to them. I expect him to be the starting catcher for San Jose, although Arnold and one or more of the S-K guys could land there with Susac starting in Augusta.
Drew Stiner 6'2", 210 lbs. He was Dylan Bundy's catcher in HS. Scouting reports say he's an excellent defensive catcher but lots of questions about his bat. Reportedly has a pull happy approach.
The Giants are well stocked at the catcher position, possibly more than any other organization. Here's how I would rank them as prospects(this is a tough one!):
1. Tommy Joseph
2. Hector Sanchez
3. Andrew Susac
4. Johnny Monell
5. Alex Burg
6. Joe Staley
7. Mike Murray
8. Dan Burkhart
9. Eric Sim
10. Drew Stiner
11. Jeff Arnold.
12. The rest
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Always enjoy reading your takes DrB. Sort of surprised you went with Joseph as the top catcher, but I also was not aware that his defense had come so far, so your analysis is great.
ReplyDeleteI know it would take quite some time to do, but it would be very interesting to compare just catcher depth among all teams. Along with starting pitching at the major league level, I'd imagine the Giants' catching depth in the organization has got to be one of the best around.
I am especially intrigued by Susac. It seems like everything I have read suggests there is something there that hasn't totally been seen in his stats. Never a problem to have too much of a good thing!
Cheers.
good catchers, even backups...are a premium in the league...even more than pitchers
ReplyDeletethis depth is gonna work out of the giants when it comes to trades
really like monell...calls a very good game. big kid, good arm
not sure why murray was sent to salk again...should be in sj next season
basically...posey most likely wont be catching past 2013
Yankees are reportedly stocked at catcher too.
ReplyDeleteNice rundown as usual.
The Yanks have Montero, who everyone seems to think is not really a catcher plus Romine and Gary Sanchez. That's pretty good, but I think the Giants are deeper.
ReplyDeleteThe Reds have some guys too with Mesoraco and Grandal, both 1st rounders. If our guys were in the Yankee system I imagine they would be as hyped as Romine or Sanchez. Will Montero please get enough ABs to not be a prospect anymore? That guy is hyped beyond hype and he really isn't a catcher to boot.
ReplyDeleteIts pretty exciting what Tommy Joseph did this year. Joseph is the biggest trade chip of the catchers, that would be a tough one. I think he's going to get a lot more national ink this coming year.
The ideal situation is to keep our catching needs in-house for years to come. Spending several millons on guys like Ramon Hernandez is pointless. Hopefully Hector Sanchez will be Posey's backup this year. Whiteside just does not have enough offense and it seems the pitching staff preferred Chris Stewart over Whiteside. So what is the point in keeping him. I think the best case scenario is for Tommy Joseph and Hector Sanchez take over the catching duties in 2013 and for Posey to take 1B or 2B. Posey played just about every position at Florida State and in high school he was a SS. He is an amazing athlete and it is not impossible that he would stick somewhere other than 1B or C.
ReplyDeleteRoger, I don't see Hector spending much of this season in San Francisco - he needs to spend at least half a season in Fresno, and preferrably the whole season. Think 2013 for him.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the decision on who is Buster's backup in 2012 will be an intriguing one, since none of these guys listed will be ready for the majors in 2012. Sanchez in 2013, maybe Susac or Joseph in 2014.
I certainly want Posey off the C position, although I'd prefer him at 3B. I could imagine a situation where Pablo continues to struggle with his weight and his hitting approach; in that case, I'd be very open to trading him before he gets expensive. Surely with his body type he won't age well.
Posey's great value is that he is a highly productive CATCHER. Move him to first or third and his numbers lessen in impact. I like Sanchez as the No. 2 in SF with Tommy J starting in AAA, based on his very strong second half of this year. It's a great problem when you have too many catching possibilities.
ReplyDeleteI'll say they start with CStew at backup with Monell and HSanchez in Fresno. Joseph and Burg go to Richmond. Susac will be in San Jose and they'll put Arnold, Staley, Murray and Burkhart names in a hat for the backup guy there. The other 3 go to Augusta. Then there is Sim. Somebody's gonna get DFA'd!
ReplyDeleteI have been saying since we got Posey that he should be like Biggio, play C for a good number of years then move to 2B just before his body start to fail him. His bat is still great there, you can tell who is well informed or not by whether they say 1B or not, if they say 1B, they are only thinking that he can only play 1B because the Giants played him there before.
ReplyDeleteI would be surprised if the BU was anyone other than CStew. He did an excellent job with the pitchers AND with throwing out runners. All the other guys need at least another full year in the minors, and, with CStew, there is simply no need to rush them.
ReplyDeleteAllfrank
I do not understand all this talk about Posey playing 2b or SS. Have any of you seen his body type? He has huge hips and short legs. He was a great athlete in HS and college, but he was moved away from mid-inf in college for a reason; he did not project, defensively, as a MLB infielder.
ReplyDeleteMove him away from catcher, and his bat becomes good. Keep him at catcher and his bat is awesome.
As for the farm, we have 3 legit MLB starter prospects (ToJo, Susac, Hector) and a number of journeyman/backup prospects (Monell, Berg). I can not imagine another org being that DEEP at catcher.
Very tough call with Posey. Seeing Joe Mauer battle injuries the past 2 years is really painful to watch. Before Cousins, Posey was taking a really bad beating with foul tips, especially off his facemask. I agree, what makes him special is not only his bat at catcher but his defense at catcher. Maybe a plan to take him down to about 100 games would be a compromise, playing him elsewhere? There is something to the argument his body won't play at 2nd. But he is a great athlete.
ReplyDeleteAwesome talent here and depth but for next year I think they might look at bringing in somebody. I hope its not Ramon Hernandez, as he'd cost our draft pick. Stewart's glove played and his bat had flashes, but they may want a more established hitter.
In other news, Brandon Crawford now has a 16 game hitting streak in the AFL. We weren't in on Jamey Carroll and his 2/7 (with a third year vesting option!) so maybe they'll turn to Nick Punto next? Long term Matt Cain contract Sabean, stop messing around with utility guys. Get them priorities in order.
My plan for Buster? Find a way to trade Aubrey Huff. Sign Ryan Doumit and have him and Buster split C and 1B duties. Keep Pill around for insurance. Ain't gonna happen, but that's what I'd like to see.
ReplyDeleteIt takes two to tango Shankbone, we do not know what Cain wants for a long extension right off. It is usually a very long negotiation, so I take solice that both Sabean and Baer both publicly said that signing the pitching long term is the goal.
ReplyDeleteThat however does not mean either side should shirk their fiduciary duties and get a deal done quickly.
Meanwhile, he has a team to put together.
I also think that there is lying in the press right now, no way Bloomquist turns down an extra $800,000 to stay with AZ per the Tim Brown Yahoo post that said he did.
Even if the Giants did offer Bloomquist $4.6 M over two years, I don't get all the outrage over that. He's a good utility guy who can play pretty much every position except catcher and pitcher. $2.3 M/yr is about the going rate for a guy like that. I'd rather have him than Fonty or Kepp.
ReplyDeleteOGC - dead on, my man, we have no idea. Its a stated priority, I will breath easy when its done. For me its way more important than anything else, and its the reason I am calm about big name FAs not being linked to the Giants.
ReplyDeleteUtility guys - Bloomquist doubles his money, Ratface Carroll doubles his money almost (the Twins are going to be mighty sad starting him everyday). Will Barmes double HIS money? I agree, nobody walks away from 20% more money, so something ain't right with those Bloomquist reports, especially on a 3.8MM offer. I don't mind Bloomquist, but he is pretty nondescript.