We've all wondered when Barry Zito would have a start where he got blown out early. It happened today as the BrewCrew ran up an 8-0 lead in the first two innings. He was hurt by 2 errors but one of the was his own. The Giants offense put made a respectable showing but it was too little too late. Key Lines:
Brandon Crawford- 2 for 5. BA= .232. Crawford continues to improve at the plate. He still has a + UZR despite the errors. Fangraphs has him ranked as the 12 best fielding SS in baseball so far in 2012.
Hector Sanchez- 1 for 5, 2B. BA= .290. Hector's double drove in 3 runs in the 4'th inning.
Joaquin Arias- 3 for 4, SB(1). BA= .263. Nice game from Arias. Seems like he might be the best option for 2B after Pablo comes back.
Barry Zito- 3 IP, 5 H, 8 R, 4 ER, 4 BB, 3 K's. ERA= 3.53. The ER makes it look better than it was. Just not a good start from Zito. Unfortunately, once he has one of these, he tends to have more of them.
Bullpen- 5 IP, 5 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 5 K's. Not sure how many scoreless innings the bullpen has going now but it's a lot. Too little, too late in this one, though.
Dodgers are playing the D'Backs under the lights so we don't know if the Giants will fall 8 games behind or not.
Giants start a 4 game set in Miami tomorrow night with Ryan Vogelsong taking on Anibal Sanchez.
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both arias and craw had problems picking up the ball in the field...one of the doubles zito gave up, was a ball arias couldve had a play on...he didnt see it...for some reason, the drunks at miller chose to only open the roof part way
ReplyDeleteexactly how long does belt get to prove himself and why? why isnt he treated like linden, torcato or the rest of the bums that have come through sf? and i really dont understand the belt apologists...who are mostly the same people who want to rip craw when he boots an ez one.
bochy used loux correctly this time...2ip....maybe if he hangs for the rest of the season, he can be stretched edlefson did great too
could be the bums year...would be miraculous...no way should that rotation hold up
culberson was sent back to fresno...so the riot, his stone glove and weak bat...are returning....hooray
just found out the reason....its cuz cheater braun likes it that way...better for the hitters
Deleteoh goody
well...dont have to play in cheeseheadville the rest of the year...and i think with the new all interleague all the time, the giants dont return to stupidwienerraceville, till 2020
the commish is a crook
Belt is sitting on a 68% contact rate right now after 8 Ks in 15 PAs, no hits and 3 walks. He's had 23 starts in 44 games. He definitely isn't very consistent, and he's definitely in a rut. Don't know the answer as to whether he should be sent down or not.
DeleteI guess you could label me in the Belt apologist crowd. I think the adjustment to MLB pitching is a rough one. I also think this is more in his head than mechanics, but there are always adjustments major leaguers have to do, always. I read a transcript of JT Snow's critique on Belt, it was harsh but fair. His bat isn't staying in the zone long enough, and he's facing a lot of breaking balls.
I would move him to the 2nd spot, he might get more fastballs that way and his 350 OBP can always be used even if his power isn't filling in at all, which is the 2nd half of the equation (contact issues being the first). Crawford seems to have responded well to the 2 spot, after Bochy flirted with putting Belt there first.
I try and support all the kids, I think Crawford hasn't earned the right to be a unshaved grease monkey yet, and while I win bets and support the hell out of Craw, the errors are becoming really, really annoying. The bat can sit at Mendoza, the glovework cannot be bad news bears.
The Riot has a chance at an extra base hit. Manny Burriss does not. It is plainly evident that releasing The Hobbit was the completely wrong move now. Burriss has had his chances, and he's more successful than 98% of pro ball players, but he needs to get off the roster now.
Oh, and I agree completely, the Commish is a crook, through and through.
DeleteSabean on chronicle live 5/18: Belt: "We all are(the front office and manager, on the same page on how to use him)…What confounds things is that Pill has been able to supply some power and we don’t hit for much power. When there’s left handed pitching, you want to keep him in the mix because a long year. And quite frankly, we’ve had to be resourceful on days that Buster isn’t able to catch…Really it’s about cutting down his(Belt) miss rate. He’s a guy who swings and misses a lot and some of that is mechanics and in some ways he’s overmatched up here right now…You see it(he’s overmatched) from his strikeout ratio. You see it from his swing and miss rate. He’s fourth in all of baseball in almost 40 percent of the swings he does take he misses the ball. Obviously he has to clean that up"
DeleteThere you go. Missing the bezball. Bad for business. That is a tough and fair assessment of Belt. As somebody who has criticized the Giants Greybeards handling of Belt (Much more Bochy than Sabean however) with their public statements, Sabean has been out front and on point twice now in the past month about our hero Brandon. I think its a tough issue, one that doesn't boil down easy. Belt is much more talented than Tony Torcato though, or John Bowker. I hate the jabs the Giants have to endure along the lines of "they don't know what they have" or the snark Keith Law lobs at em.
Shankbone, you bragging about winning a bet that only you are in agreement that you have won and that is over a guy who hasn't done anything to warrant winning the bet for you is funny. You and I have gone back and forth on this but the only third party who has weighed in on the judgement on who has won was Lefty and he agreed at the time that Craw was in a platoon with Arias just before Panda got injured forcing the Giants to keep Craw in the lineup. If we can't agree on who won the bet then it is only fair to let Lefty make the call which he did. You fought tooth and nail at the time and I really didn't push the issue but don't go around puffing your chest out now like you are some Vegas high roller!!
DeleteAs I said at the time Lefty agreed that Craw had been put into a platoon, it is very possible that this would be a bet that neither of us would win because of the caveats involved including an injury clause and a platoon clause. Craw went into a platoon which means I should have won the bet but when Panda got injured they didn't have any other options meaning it affected Craws PT positively so at the very least it should be a wash. Do you really have any doubts that if Panda doesn't go down, your boy Craw still starts every game? If so then you are out of your mind and clearly out of touch with reality.
I love winning bets too but get real dude. Your boy is on pace for 40 errors this year and with a hot last 2 weeks is still only up to .230. He has zero power or speed and is proving exactly what I have been saying about him to be correct, he is not ready for the majors this year. That was the whole premise of the bet, that Craw was not ready for the majors and a byproduct of that was going to be the result of him losing his job within 40 games which he technically did but then lucked back into it when Panda went out. If you are that hard up for free tickets to the game then give me your address and I will just send you a pair but you bragging about winning this bet is like George Bush bragging about winning the presidential election!
Pato, you completely lost this bet. Thats the last time I'll talk about it, don't want to be a wannabe vegas guy. You pushed the issue constantly and loudly, so lets not get confused here. I thought it was some good natured fun. The injury clause was for Crawford himself. Trying to figure out the tea leaves of Bochy lineup decisions is an impossible task. He stayed in the lineup, which was my premise: that the Giants were really committed to him. Performance has sucked worse than I expected for sure, but that wasn't the bet, it was whether he would stay in the lineup. He did. End of bet. You should concede like a gentleman, but you obviously don't want to. I won't make any more cracks at you about it, sorry if I offended you.
DeleteIf you can get Lefty to agree with you that Craw was never in a platoon then I will concede.
DeleteYou said this: but one or two starts a week to me means he has lost his job.
DeleteI said this: Full platoon with The Riot loses the bet for me, but we gotta look at that close in case the Gints are suddenly battling lefty malos from Coors to Petco or something.
And this: I think the Giants are legit committed to him, and I think flirting with either side of 250 is going to happen.
read all about it here: http://www.leftymalo.com/2012/02/and_now_for_some_brandon.php
He had a day of rest on getaway day in MIL. He was benched against 2 SD lefties and 2 MIL lefties, and Kershaw. That is it on his benching. The only problem with your Pablo injury theory is Pablo got hurt on May 2nd. Crawford had days off May 4, 5 and 7. Then he was back full time. That was Bochy lineup shenanigans, not Pablo's injury.
Because you're most likely too lazy, here is Craw's game log: http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/30469/brandon-crawford
Just concede the damn bet, you lost fair and square. I have to admit its annoying to me that you constantly heckled me and then won't admit you lost.
Shankbone, you are behaving like a child. If you weren't man enough to concede after Lefty posted that he was in agreement that Craw was in a platoon then don't expect me to roll over for you now. Yes, I am too lazy to waste my time looking up more reasons as to why as I have better things to do.
DeleteBoys, boys, take it over to Lefty's joint please...
DeleteGreat idea Monterey Shark. Just emailed Left to weigh in and end this. Pato, you have been a total killjoy about this. I will not be collecting from you, and obviously I do not have any interest in attending a game with you. I just checked Lefty's site, there is no agreement of any platoon, he has a one off sentence where he says he likes Arias as Crawford's platoon mate. That was an opinion, but not a fact, and completely out of context to this bet. As far as I'm concerned, you are the one behaving like a child, and if it wasn't for your heckling on and on I wouldn't care. I'm straight up, always. And I'm straight up done with you without a concession, and an apology for your words here.
DeleteOn Belt: I wish we had a scouting report that compared his mechanics from last year to what he is doing this year. There seems to be some evidence that his swing has changed to the point where he is mostly using his upper body, thus sapping him of his power.
DeleteIt doesn't make any sense that he has NO HRs this year, especially considering some of the mammoth shots he had last year.
I have a feeling that something will happen with 1st base in the next 2-4 weeks.. Belt has a chance to be a solid regular, but it might benifit him if the Giants sent him down so he can work on his adjustments.. Its tough learning in the big leagues.. Maybe they could have Aubrey Huff, Brett Pill, and Buster Posey all share playing time at 1st base.. Anyone heard how the Panda is recovering? Also Roger Kieshnick hit 2 hrs tonight at Fresno and now has 13 hrs and a .330 BA.. The PCL has been a hitters league forever, but has the league become such a joke that the Giants are going to ignore what Kieshnick is doing? Maybe Belt goes down and Kieshnick comes up?
ReplyDeleteLG
pablo took real bp from the right side and said he felt no pain
DeleteZulgy game. At least he was pissed off and it showed - doesn't seem to make an 83MPH FB go faster though.
ReplyDeleteLess errors would really help the Giants.
Why did Bochy have Zito pitch to Lucroy with a man on third? Dude is leading the league hitting .500 w/RISP and killing us, just walk him.
Why am I excited that The Riot is back...because it can't get worse than Burriss/Culbie. I hope.
Hope the bullpen can keep throwing zeros in Miami.
I'll be a bit surprised if the Dodgers can come back tonight from a 9-1 deficit although not totally the way things are going.
ReplyDeletelike zito, lilly and wright came crashing to earth
DeleteI finally agree with something Bacci said, Belt has no business being on this team. I have been a big Pill Proponent as well but at this point he may need to go down too so that Hector can see a few more starts with Posey at 1B or here is a wild and crazy idea, how about picking up Adam Lind!! For a team that will be lucky to have 1 guy hit 20+ bombs this year (yes I know that bombs aren't everything but bombs = RBI's and as Jeff Kent so eloquently put it, the money lies in the RBI's!), why not take a chance on a guy who may just need a change of scenery? Oh, right, he has no glove so we don't want to do anything that could hurt us on defense... yawn.
ReplyDeleteLind has been sitting in the American League East facing guys like David Price, CC, Matt Moore, and James Shields getting his ass handed to him for the better part of the year and he is owed something like 5-6 mil a year over the next 3 but what do we really have to lose besides money here? No, not gonna do it, not gonna call the Giants management cheap because we all know how much money they have invested in this roster and we also know it hasn't been invested wisely so why even think about taking another chance on a long shot like Lind! Yup, lets never ever take a risk again and then we can be absolutely sure that we will never ever get burned again!
There, that felt good. Nothing like a knee jerk reaction emotionally filled rant after a bad Giants loss to calm the nerves. I am sure by the end of this road trip when we are 9-10 games behind the Dodgers and they have actually picked up Lind instead of us, things will start to shape up! If there is one thing I hate it is mediocrity and we are getting a heavy dose of it right now. I would love to see us 10 games below .500 or 10 games above but sitting at .500 clinging to the last playoff spot while the torture continues is killing me. Maybe Timmy will be good again now that Zito is back to his old tricks...
I really, really don't think Adam Lind is the answer at any price.
DeleteRemember when nobody thought that Cody Ross was the answer either? Remember how the Giants justified that one? What if all Lind needs is a change of scenery and he ends up getting it down in LA? They could definitely use another 1B with pop and he could be just the boost in their lineup to keep their winning ways afloat. If not for the fact that he could possibly help us as well, do you not see any value in blocking the Dodgers from acquiring him?
DeleteActually, it may make more sense for the Cards to claim Lind with Berkman considering retirement and with their ability to turn off track power hitters back around. I can see Lind going to St. Louis and doing exactly what Berkman did last year.
DeleteWho's nobody? I was actually pretty happy when they signed Cody Ross and said so at the time. I think it was actually Jose Guillen that nobody thought was the answer and they were right.
DeletePato
ReplyDeleteOne more thing Lefty, remember when Shankbone and I had the bet that Craw wouldn't last 40 games as the starter? I know it is only 2 games but do you think we have a platoon on our hands now with Arias getting the AB's against lefties and actually hitting really well? You are kind of the arbitrator on this one so let us know what you think!
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3 weeks ago
Shankbone
ah, look at Pato grasping at straws... For the record, the agreement also has an injury clause. I think Arias playing has a lot to do with Crawford's sprained finger coupled with landing on his elbow. Didn't see it but a bud thought he was in a soft sling today in the dugout. I conceded the bet if its a platoon, but reserved the right to win if it was Bochy benching Crawford against strictly lefties. El Malo is of course the final word.
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3 weeks ago in reply to Pato
DrBGiantsfan
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If a platoon means he's lost the starting job, then yeah, Crawford is now in a platoon with Arias. Of course, if he's the LH hitting side of the platoon, he'll be starting 75% of the games.
Like Reply
3 weeks ago in reply to Shankbone F
Shankbone
3 starts for Arias is too small a sample size to say Crawford has lost anything. The first start was getaway day, and the last 2 were for Bochy's platoon adventures. I put in the hedge on Crawford and the lefties because I know my Bochy well.
You're right Shank, Lefty never did comment on the platoon but Dr. B agreed with me and you true to form, you made up more excuses as to why you weren't satisfied. Too small a sample size, Craw has a hurt toe nail, whatever you need to tell yourself so you feel better I could care less. Not going to the game with you isn't going to cause me to lose any sleep.
ReplyDeleteTo quote Yogi Berra, it ain't over til its over. You say excuses, I say sticking to my guns. You say acting childish, well I did not make a lame crack about being hard up for tickets, nor did I call you out of your mind or clearly not in touch with reality. You said those things towards me. Finally, your argument about Sandoval being the impetus for saving Crawford's starting job is quickly proven to be inaccurate, as Crawford was rested against lefties by Bochy after that injury.
DeleteI responded to each of your digs here and at Lefty Malo's politely, and feel they were within the parameters of the bet we set up. Looking over what was said, that remains my opinion. In the spirit of the bet, here was what Bochy said yesterday about Crawford: Bochy said there has been no talk of making a move at shortstop. “(Crawford) has had his rough days but he bounces back well and that’s what you need from the kid,” Bochy said. “He’s done that with the bat and he’s done that defensively. There’s no question we have to pick it up here defensively. That’s what killed us in the first inning. When pitching is your strength you need to catch the ball, and that has come back to haunt us at times.”
Despite poor overall play, much poorer than I expected, Crawford is still standing. That alone should win the bet for me hands down.
You were wrong about Lefty weighing in, and just because DrB said it appeared to be a platoon in a comments section (and I'm not sure what that comments section you copy/pasted is from, a link would give context) doesn't mean that was an established fact, either for our purposes and especially not for the Giants purposes.
I gave you respect during all of this, and I expect respect back. I find your whole approach to this to be insulting. And I'll stick to my guns here: concession, and apology, or I'm done.
To quote Charles Barkley, you are REDICKALIS! I'm glad you have an idea of what the hell goes on in your head because I certainly don't. The only apology I have is being sorry for ever making a bet with someone as pig headed as you. You were going to find a way to manipulate the bet in your favor however it turned out because you don't like to lose and guess what, neither do I. You saw the platoon coming and started to plant the seed about how Craw had some wrist injury or how he fell hard on a play. So I guess we are done, sorry to everyone else that has wasted their time as well reading this childish back and forth!
ReplyDeleteThis is from leftys, this link, one of the many times you were heckling me about this bet:
Deletehttp://www.leftymalo.com/2012/05/giants_back_to_500_hit.php
Shankbone His defensive miscues are scary, and that just won't cut it. I'll concede the bet when he's definitely pulled from the lineup. I am trying to think of an example of the Giants sticking with somebody scuffling this much, but I can't think of one in the Sabean era. I might have to surf B/R and look for some Bocockian nonsense.
Does that look like a guy who is trying to manipulate a bet or dodge out? All I did was wait and see what happened. I'm absolutely fine to admit when I'm wrong and I am fine with paying up when that happens. It did not happen in this case. I responded (politely) every time you heckled. I cannot help the fact that Crawford did indeed have a well publicized finger sprain right before the start of the season. I also can't help the fact that he fell on his elbow. I did indeed point those out. If you read Lefty Malo's posts, he noticed this as well. If they pulled Crawford from the lineup, as we defined in the comments section of the bet, I would concede. But I'm not going to concede a few games off at the whims of Bochy's lefty-righty games when I explicitly stated that during the definition of the bet.
I've thought you were a funny, slightly foolish smack talker Pato, but I also thought you were a stand up guy. You are trying to introduce a sense of equivalency here, that both our arguments are valid, and we're both being childish. I'll stand on my record posting here, and defer to yours. It doesn't favor you in the slightest. The fact you threw some silly insults to make it personal my way is the reason I'm making this an issue, instead of a "agree to disagree" and leave it at that. You've been wrong at every turn on this thread. But as you're frequently wrong here, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Nobody cares
DeleteTwo word answer is wrong yet again. You care. You cared enough to heckle me a dozen times on two different blogs. You cared enough to pounce on a throwaway sentence on this bet - the only time I mentioned it besides responding to your heckles - and throw down a rant filled with factual mistakes and rude personal attacks. Did you think your awesome smackdown skills were going to rule the day? I'm not in the habit of letting that kind of thing stand. DrB is a one man show, he doesn't have time and shouldn't be policing anything here, you have to bring mutual respect to the table and be an adult. Rude, obnoxious and ignorant. Not a good combination. I loved the "man up" part especially. Well, Lefty threw down the ruling, and as expected, it went the way of reason. I offered you several chances to apologize and concede, but you decided to show your true colors instead.
DeleteAh, facts and definitions, always interesting to ruminate on that. Like starting and platooning.
ReplyDeleteA platoon to me means a few things. First of all, the hitter hits worse vs. his handed side. In Crawford's case, LHP. And the vast majority of hitters are like that, the physics of how the pitch comes into the batter dictates that for most hitters. It also means that he's so bad that it would be worth the trouble of using an other-handed hitter to split the starting job into two, one against RHP and one against LHP. Lastly, it usually means that the platoon should continue unless the hitter shows a sign of coming out of things or the other-handed bat was not available for some reason.
I said it before, I'll say it here: Crawford was not platooned, he was given a break to work on some things as a hitter. It is not like a starting pitcher who you can skip one start but there's 10 days to work on things in-between starts. You just skipped one but had a lot of time to think and work on things. And as long as he's not mentally pressing, you don't sit him down either, you continue to spot start him so he don't get too much rust on.
I've been looking at his games (I find that few people bother to do that) see that the pattern and the timing holds up.
From April 6 to April 25, he started every game, 69 PA/66 AB, 2/10 BB/K, .212/.235/.348/.584
Starting April 26, he started missing games, which some has labeled a platoon. He got 15 PA/AB during this period and hit even worse, with 5 K's, .133/.133/.200/.333
Not a sign that he got better and deserving of a starting job.
Yet he once again was thrust into the full time starting SS role again on May 8th, with 70 PA/61 AB since, 7/23 BB/23 (so even worse strikeouts rate and much worse contact rate) but now he's hitting .279/.371/.344/.716 (and mostly from the 2 spot).
That's not a platoon to me, there is no reason to "platoon" him and then after he hits even worse, give him the job back. It fits what I've been saying, that he's the starter, but had problems hitting, so they set him aside for a few games, but not totally shut him down because otherwise he would get rusty. Then once they thought his batting was fixed, put him back in.
A reasoning that I saw was that the platoon ended prematurely because of the Sandoval injury and DL. That does make some sense on the face of it. However, the timing is way off once you examine the actual data and games played. Crawford's pause to refresh ran from April 26 to May 7th. Pablo got injured in the middle of that, May 2nd. Shouldn't the "platoon" have ended immediately then, if that were the reason? Instead, Crawford missed three more games, games 26, 27, and 29, before starting full-time again.
This is much like the Nate Schierholtz blinder-boosters. They rail on and on how the Giants don't believe in him or is holding him back by not starting him regularly. But I went into his numbers and games played, and the Giants gave him extended periods of starting time, even while he was stone cold, and gave him the starting job back when he returned from the DL for the umpteenth time. But you get cold too long or too cold, you lose your starting job, simple as that, no bias or "hating" going on. The Giants believe in him enough that he has outlasted all the prospects coming up with him, Niekro, Ellison, Frandsen, Bowker, Ishikawa, the Giants kept him around and said he was the incumbent, yet he couldn't hit well enough to hold the job.
And I want Nate to succeed as much as any other fan except for his friends and relatives. I love home run hitters as much as anyone and when he's on, he is blasting them far, deep, outta here! And I feel a connection to him because he went to Chabot College, which I did in my summers in college, and played some ball there. But you just can go that cold in the majors.