Thursday, November 24, 2011

San Jose A's?

I am on record multiple times saying the Giants are as well positioned for the future as any team in baseball. Some of that is based on their core of young major league level players, some on their farm system, some on their revitalized scouting/drafting operation. A lot of it, though, is based on their ownership, stadium and fanbase situation. This offseason has raised a few puffy storm clouds on the horizon. Nothing to run for cover over, mind you, but some things to check in on once in awhile to make sure a full blown tornado isn't forming.

First came the replacement of Bill Neukom as the managing partner. While I seriously doubt this will have a major impact on the future of the team, it is a bit unsettling that the move came so soon after he took over from Peter Magowan and right no the heels of the first World Series title since the franchise moved to San Francisco. While I don't believe Neukom is personally responsible for the Championship, he did accomplish some things in his short tenure that seemed to resonate with a lot of fans, including me. He wrote a franchise manual codifying some of the good things the organization was already doing. He seemed to want to emphasize scouting, drafting and player development as the way to build and maintain the team. I think Baer and the reorganized ownership group will continue to do many of those things, but yeah, it's a bit unsettling and something to be aware of.

Now comes word that Bud Selig is going to meet with the Giants ownership about a proposal to move the A's franchise to a yet-to-be-built stadium in downtown San Jose, in the middle of an area the Giants officially claim as their territory. Again, this may be no more than a tempest in a teapot, with no relevance at all for the casual fan, or even the obsessed fan, but it's worth taking a look at. I don't claim to be much knowledgeable about this stuff. My comments and thoughts will come more from the heart than the brain here. For a more rational businesslike discussion I recommend ObsessiveGiantsCompulsive's site.

I was only 2 years old When the Giants Came To Town. I didn't become aware of baseball or the Giants until I was almost 10 years old in 1966. They were a wonderful team back then. They had gone to the World Series in 1962. They had several Hall of Fame caliber players led by the incomparable Willie Mays. They were in contention every year, although frustratingly always seemed to finish in second place to someother team that was temporarily better. Then, the A's rolled into town with their carpetbags in tow. The carpetbagging aura wasn't helped by them having a huckstering medicine show operator of an owner who brought all kinds of showy gimmicks and promotions along with the A's.

Some of my friends jumped on the bandwagon almost immediately. I remember being annoyed by that. I wasn't looking for a new team to root for. The one I already had was just fine, thank you. The A's had a bunch of young players with goofy nicknames like Blue Moon, Catfish and Jumbo Jim. The Giants had Willie Mays and Willie McCovey. There was no comparison in my mind. I remember having a vague feeling that these interlopers were not good for my Giants, but I didn't really understand why.

Over the next decade, that wonderful Giants team gradually fell apart. The Hall of Famers performances faded as they grew older. Some were traded away. Attendance at Giants games faded along with the Hall of Famers. Some days you could listen to the games on the radio and hear the echo of the announcers in Candlestick Park. The players grew grumpy and complained endlessly about the terrible conditions they had to play in. My family moved out of the area. It didn't help that the upstart A's and their huckstering owner reeled off a string of championships that had eluded my Giants for so long. The Niners and Raiders seemingly had the same luck as the Giants in the football playoffs losing heartbreaker after heartbreaker. There just seemed to be a force in the world that had decided any team I rooted for was doomed not just to failure, but frustrating, heartbreaking failure. I blamed the A's and Charlie Finley. They had come in and stolen the Giants fanbase through devious, snake oily means which had resulted in the Giants being unable to afford any good players.

Of course, there was a whole lot more to it than that. The Giants Hall of Fame core was allowed to age together with nothing but Bobby Bonds to continue the glory, a burden he was ultimately unable to bear. Horace Stoneham was an aging, old school, alcoholic owner who was ill-equipped to deal with the rapidly changing financial landscape of Major League Baseball. Good young players were traded for wretched surly veterans. Candlestick Park remained a joke of a ballpark for far too long. Ironically, Charlie Finley ultimately became a casualty of the free agent era too, but not before he won a few championships to wave in the Giants collective faces for decades to come. Also ironically, the Giants high water mark of the post-Stonham era came when they were completely outclassed by the A's in a World Series that was interrupted by an earthquake that nearly destroyed the ol' 'Stick.

All that changed in 2000 when the Giants finally built a gorgeous new ballpark of their own. Pac Bell Park quickly became the envy of the baseball world. Suddenly, the Giants were the ones you couldn't get a ticket for. The A's soon became the forgotten stepchildren of Bay Area Baseball. Pac Bell Park became a national destination and the Giants were THE team to root for. Of course, the near misses, frustrations and disappointment on the field continued to plague them, but somehow it didn't seem as bad because the A's and even better, the Dodgers, were even more frustrated. Now it was the A's who were drawing 800 fans to a game. Yeah, there was Moneyball and Billy Beane, but you know, those pathetic A's fans had to have something to take solace in. The Giants owned the Bay Area. That ownership reached a crescendo with the long awaited and hoped for, and now unexpected Championship of 2010. The future was so bright, we all had to wear shades, well, except a few wretched naysayers who continued to rail against Giants management from various outposts on the internet.

Now looms the dark shadow of Bud Selig, seemingly coming to snatch away what should have belonged to the Giants and their fans all along, territory, precious territory, and along with it money, life-giving money to pay, not just the players, but the General Manager, the Scouting Director, the scouts themselves and the minor league coaches too. Somehow those of feelings of annoyance and foreboding I had as a kid as I watched the interloper A's come clattering into town and steal the glory from my team, are finding their way to the surface once again. What does this mean for my belief in the future of Giants Baseball? How much of the fanbase will is siphon away. What effect will it have on payroll? TV contracts, and ultimately performance on the field? Was 2010 both the first and last of the Giants Championships? Will the A's once again carpetbag their way to usurping the Giants dominance in Bay Area Baseball?

Hopefully these are all just suppressed anxieties from my younger days irrationally bubbling into my consciousness. The Giants still play in the Destination City. Nobody in their right mind with a choice would prefer to see a game from downtown San Jose over the gorgeousness of AT&T Park, right? No multibillion dollar company is going to want to wine and dine its clients in San Jose when they could be in San Francisco, right? All those potential fans in the East Bay will find it easier to make the trip across the bay by BART or the Bay Bridge than schlep all the way down to San Jose, right? All the TV stations that carry the games and news of the games will still be based in San Francisco, right? Brian Sabean will still be a better GM than Billy Beane, and Larry Baer, et al will still be better owners than Lew Wolff, right?

How do you feel about the A's possibly moving to San Jose?

28 comments:

  1. DrB,

    I am not too worried about the move if it does happen. I think there should definitely be some compensation if they do move to San Jose. I think the NBA has a relocation fee of $30 million and if the MLB is similar I hope the A's pay much more than that for moving into their territory. I don't think it will be a big deal until about 8-10 years when kids grow up in that area and the local A's become possibly their team when it should be the Giants. But, the reverse could come true where kids who would normally be A's fans become Giants fans. I am just worried right now about what will happen to the San Jose Giants. Will we be forced to move our advanced A club? The A's are like the cheapest club around and as soon as a player gets close to making 8 figures they are as good as gone. An A's fan must be so frustrated when all of their stars leave for greener pastures. I highly doubt moving to San Jose will change this philosophy. They will continue to be a 3rd class franchise. I say let them move but not before paying at least $60 - 70 million for invading our territory.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Wow. First off, happy Thanksgiving. Quite different from your usual post DrB.

    Thanks for sharing your experience. For me its always interesting how people are drawn to the Giants, the only professional sports team to turn me from a relatively mild mannered guy into a raging lunatic at any given moment. Baseball is a magical sport.

    I grew up in Oakland for the most part until I was 13 when we rolled over to Berkeley, on the tail end of the Finley junket. I have absorbed the history, but the ten or so years separating the A's arrival and my becoming a baseball fan makes a big difference. That farm system that Finley grew and broke up was pretty sweet. I usually recommend the HBO doc "Rebels of Oakland" by Frank DeFord but something tells me it'd annoy you DrB, even if they do bag on Charlie O a fair amount.

    OGC has a ton of info on the matter, his point about corporate money hedging their bets with sponsorships and boxes makes a lot of sense to me. I think there is enough big money to go around. I am not so sure about fans.

    Some people are able to change rooting interests as they move around the country or even the Bay Area, I try my best to be understanding. For me, I was lucky enough to have a grandfather who not only lived in the City, he loved the Giants. Games on the radio, days at the Stick. Sucked me in for life.

    I don't root for the A's, but I don't have the hatred either. I have relatives down in the south bay. They are very suburban, very square. I could see them going to go watch the A's in a new stadium. Not so sure about corporate guys wanting to wine and dine. I maintain the Giants are really after protecting the Peninsula, the 650, Sand Hill Road. Most of the ownership group, minority investors in particular, are from that neck of the woods. And Franklin Templeton is based in San Mateo for Burns/Johnson.

    I think I see a little regional bias peaking through in your writing here DrB. I know as a cool cat Berkeley guy I sure grew up with that bias. As we get older we can get a little more perspective, but some things from childhood and growing up don't go away. While I don't think there are legions of east bay or north bay fans that will come over to the Giants, I also don't have a problem with giving the A's SJ for a pound of flesh. And I apologize to the good residents of San Jose for being a snob, hopefully more in the past than in the future. But I won't be one of those throwing dough at local watering holes near the A's stadium.

    Feel bad for hardcore A's fans though. They have been given a raw deal. The fact is, both franchises attendance has been miserable, and PacBell was a stroke of genius. He screwed the pooch near the end, but Petey M showed up big when it counted. If anybody threw a argument for keeping the A's out of SJ I would most likely be swayed, but at the moment I just shrug. The A's are a historic franchise with way too many wins to their name, they can't be contracted. If they want to roll to the San Jose, let em, just make sure its really deep in the 408. Now how far is this land anyways?

    Great write up as usual, even if its different.

    ReplyDelete
  3. My plan would be to send the A's up to Portland and make a better rivalry with the Mariners in the Northwest. Portland is a beautiful city, where baseball would be well received up there. Most importantly, they would not have to directly compete with another team in their target area.

    Adios Athletics.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I lived in Vancouver WA across the Columbia River from Portland, OR, but that was a long time ago. Is Portland really big enough to support a MLB baseball team? You not only need to fill up about 40,000 seats 81 times per year, but you need a television audience in the millions too. I guess Portland is probably at least as big some of the smaller market teams out there, but it seems real borderline to me.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I wonder if there is a possibility of moving the SJ Giants to the East Bay, like somewhere in the Walnut Creek/Pleasanton area? It might be a way for the Giants to put a foot print over there and maybe add to their East Bay fanbase.

    ReplyDelete
  6. DrB,

    These are the A's we are talking about. Don't you mean put about 18,000 fans in the seats? Portland could do that. Are you going to the games in Anaheim this year? I am going try to go to all 3 games. I was going to spend a ton of money to go down to Spring Training but I thought going to see the Angels series was the best with my work schedule.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Shankbone,

    Saw your post at GN about Freddy Sanchez. That guy has it all wrong. There is a reason Sanchez has been a starter his whole career and has a batting title while Carroll has been a utility guy. Do you think Carroll could hit 3 straight 2B's against Cliff Lee in the World Series? i think not. I hate when people just look at stats especially when comparing part time roles. Freddy comes up with big hits in pressure situations all the time. You cannot measure that on a stat sheet. I will take 110 games of Freddy than 150 of Carroll any day as long as we have someone like Crawford or Hairston to cover if he goes down.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Roger, Yeah, my daughter mentioned last night that the Giants will be coming to Anaheim. I think we'll try to get tix for at least one of those games then maybe one of the games at Dodger Stadium.

    ReplyDelete
  9. LIke I've said several times, sometimes guys get undervalued for so long they become overvalued. I think Carroll just hit that jackpot!

    ReplyDelete
  10. Thanks for noticing the GN post. I just finished putting up a long winded response, check it out if you want. I like what Julian writes and his dedication. He's really young, sometimes he gets snarky. But he's the best writer of those six blogs that hang out and bag on Sabean on twitter,etc. I was impressed he got an interview with Jim Callis.

    Arguing stats gives me a headache, but I set myself up for it. I pride myself on the ability to reconsider and admit when I'm wrong.

    Portland is an interesting scenario. I like the crack about 18K fans. MLB made them expand the stadium plans from 32K capacity to 36K. Maybe that could work. They do support the Jail Blazers. My brother-in-law, who is a huge A's fan, just moved there. He'd be ecstatic. What about just moving the SJ Giants to Oakland? I think the only problem would be they could actually undercut the Big Giants being that close.

    Good chance I'm going to Spring Training as a late birthday present. My buds and I decided no go on last year, too hyped. Hopefully between work/kids/life I can schedule a 4-5 day trip. That would be awesome. My 2 boys are too small to appreciate it, but that will be on the table in about five years.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I also got into another silly argument on OBM. I don't know if that was a waste of time or not, but I actually defended Brian Sabean. (Yes, OGC, I defended Sabean) That's in the comments of his last post but it was responding to the Melky/Sanchez trade. I have avoided those guys for the most part, they swear too much and are way too outraged at Sabey Sabes.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thanks for another great post, Dr. B... personal, honest and insightful. I am a bit younger than you, so for me the A's have "always been here" but I have nevertheless never been a fan of the team. Perhaps it is because I first became a baseball fan when the Finley-run A's seemed to be gimmicky, with the owner and players being attention-seeking and arrogant. And even though I was a young fan, I did not embrace the new DH rule. I remained an NL only fan, with the Giants of course being my favorite team. The Giants-Dodger rivalry completely captivated me. Perhaps not having a natural rivalry caused the A's to concoct a sort of enmity with the Giants, which also turned me off to them. The fans of the A's have always seemed to have something against the Giants fans, even to this day, and I would never take my kids to the Coliseum for interleague games for fear of how they would be treated (in the same way I would never take my kids to Dodger Stadium nowadays). Even the A's management and ownership has exhibited some sort of inferiority complex... recall their marketing campaign in 2000, "While they were building a stadium we were building a team." That may have been clever, but when does touting your own team involve taking a jab at another team that is not even in your own league?
    So like you, the prospects of the A's moving to San Jose leaves me with a sense of foreboding. I don't see how this can in any way be a good thing for the Giants in the long run. In the short term it might have the benefit of making the Giants ownership group realize that their smooth ride of the past few years may be getting a lot bumpier in the years ahead and that they will have to step things up a level when it comes to building a championship caliber team on an annual basis. But in the long run this can only serve to cut into the Giants fan base, perhaps not those with ingrained Giants fandom such as you and I, but the casual baseball fan and, more importantly, the future fanbase. There is a very large mobile young workforce drawn to Silicon Valley and it would be difficult for the Giants to draw from this source of new fans with the A's already in San Jose.
    The sense of foreboding I have is that this is already a done deal... after all, Selig and Wolff are old frat brothers from way back (I must imagine they were not members of one of the more studly BMOC fraternities on campus!) I can only hope that the compensation package is fair and generous, as Roger suggests. Perhaps that package can arrange for the paying off of the rest of the Giants debt service on AT&T Park. That would allow the freeing up of funds for a very good player of two for the seasons going forward. I also think the Giants should require some amount of annual payment from the A's in return for the territorial rights, to account for the inevitable reduction of the Giants fanbase. And the Giants FO should consider an immediate campaign to win over disenfranchised A's fans while they have the chance, perhaps offering some kind of season-ticket transfer deal for A's fans willing to switch allegiance. There should also be some compensation for MLB moving into the city where the Giants have a minor league affiliate although I am wavering on whether or not the Giants should move the Little Giants out of San Jose or not. Minor league baseball remains a more affordable option to many families than MLB and having the Little Giants in San Jose can perhaps help retain some of their Silicon Valley fanbase. Perhaps having the Giants move their A+ affiliate to Sacramento and the A's having their AAA affiliate move to San Jose might be something worth discussing, but that could prove to be unfeasible.
    In any case I can only hope this is something that has not caught Giants ownership by surprise and that they have long ago anticipated the possibility and have a plan of attack to either prevent it or to see that they can clearly benefit from it.

    ReplyDelete
  13. BBJunkie,

    Thanks for the comment. Glad you appreciated the post. If this goes down, I absolutely think the Giants should put on a big PR push to establish more of a footprint in the East Bay. Part of that would be to move the SJ Giants to Oakland, or preferably over the hill into the Walnut Creek/Pleasanton area.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Shankbone,

    Wow, that guy at OBM's skin seems like it's just a bit too thin, huh? I didn't think the pushback he got on his original post re. the Sanchez/Melky trade was out of line at all. When he leads off his argument by saying the Yankees would have considered trading Montero for Sanchez without a shred of evidence to back it up, he really has no ground for complaining if people's responses are not entirely evidence based.

    Anyway, I wrote off that site a long time ago as he is a one-note-Charley Sabean Hater and there is no point in trying to convince him otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The A's to Portland makes good sense. There was a push a few years ago to snag the Expos before they ended up in D.C. The Portland group responsible for luring MLB put together a pretty compelling study that would suggest the market here (yes, I now live in Portland) could accommodate a baseball franchise (on a side note, the first-year MLS Timbers sold out this year, and have already sold out for next season, despite adding 2,000 more seats for 2012). One stat showed that Portland had the highest World Series TV viewership of any market that didn't already have an MLB team. That says a lot...obviously there are baseball fans up here.

    Also, if population is a question, as DrB posed, I don't think it's an issue. Portland is bigger than most people realize, and there are a few sizeable suburbs (Vancouver, WA; Gresham, Beaverton, etc).

    And as stated, they'd create a great NW rivalry with the Mariners. The only drawback I've heard in previous studies is the lack of corporate sponsorship, and the city's inability to draw any revenue from taxes (although they'd probably impose some sort of ticket fee or something).

    Lucky

    ReplyDelete
  16. DrB - I asked OBM and the poster I got in the discussion with the same question: what would you do instead? I got very vague answers that to me seemed uninformed. I follow baseball closely, I have a good idea of trade value and FA$value, if they had something in the ballpark or a coherent argument for keeping Sanchez I would have been much more impressed. Instead, its all about what will Sabean do next so we can rage some more, how out of touch he is and some completely off base comments on Sanchez' value and achievements.

    The commenter who posted links to his blog everywhere that I got in the discussion with has some interesting posts, including a great one on Andres Torres. But he's way off base with regards to Sabean. I actually spent some time reading through the links though. There is one post where he rags on somebody for trying to break through his registration process to defend Sabean. I went to that post, and laughed out loud. Give you two guesses who it was.

    Its hard to hedge sometimes, I don't like getting into arguments, especially statistical ones. So at times I'll softpeddle a bit. But sometimes you have to step up. So I understand OGC's viewpoint a little more now. BTW, the hardballtimes guy wrote back on your final comments. I don't think its worth a response personally, you already killed it.

    ReplyDelete
  17. To Anonymous/Lucky and Dr. B,

    I think the A's to Portland would be a great move to build up the A's-Mariners rivalry, and it would not require MLB and the owners to address the sticky issue of territorial rights, but somehow I get the feeling that Selig and Wolff are in cahoots to get the A's to San Jose no matter what. However, if the voters in San Jose reject the move (and I do think they should vote against it if Wolff wants taxpayers to fund any part of the move or stadium costs) then MLB should consider Portland as an alternative. The greater Portland metro area is the 23rd largest in the US. There may not be a multitude of corporations in the area but Nike immediately springs to mind as one that could certainly create a strong presence, perhaps even grabbing stadium naming rights.
    In addition, I did a bit of research and found some information here:
    http://www.unlikelymoose.com/blog/comments/1305_0_1_0_C/
    Dr. B, there is a huge population base that could conceivably support another MLB franchise in your own backyard! I didn't realize the Inland Empire has nearly double the population of both the Portland metro area and the Bay Area, and more than double that of San Jose. Of course I don't know if moving a team to the IE encroaches upon the territorial rights of the Dodgers and/or Angels, but it would set up a great rivalry with the Angels.
    The greater Sacramento area has a larger population than the greater San Jose area as well and the A's already have a presence there with the River Cats, who would obviously have to move, but Dr. B's idea of moving a minor league franchise in the Walnut Creek/Pleasanton area has a lot of merit.
    Of course I realize there is more than just population to consider when evaluating a region for viability in supporting a MLB franchise, but I hope Buddy and Lewie are not going to work over the other 28 owners to get Lewie what he wants to the detriment of the Giants when there are other, less detrimental alternatives.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Shankbone,

    What the OBM guy is missing when he demands statistical arguments is that both Melky's and Durty's futures depend much more on unquantifiables such as attitude and conditioning than any statistics they've put up in the past.

    BaseballJunkie,

    The Inland Empire has a huge population. I like to say it's the biggest population center nobody knows about! The reason why I don't think it would support a major league team of any kind is it's a very economically depressed area. The main industry is transportation and all that stuff is just passing through. The other thing it has going for it is there is still a lot of open land. It was booming during the housing bubble, but as you might guess, it's been one of the hardest hit by the crash too.

    If the Portland, OR area is the 23'rd largest, well, that means there must be at least 7 MLB teams in smaller markets and the closest competition is in Seattle, so it seems like that would be a pretty obvious alternative and far superior to San Jose. I agree with Sacramento as being a good place for them to go too. Not as good as Portland, mind you, because the Bay Area media reaches out to Sacramento and beyond, but Sacramento would be better than San Jose, IMO.

    ReplyDelete
  19. The A's are the red-headed step children of the Bay Area. And they've got a pretty good-sized chip on their shoulder.

    They have some problems, to put it mildly. Not only is baseball not feasible in the Coliseum anymore (even without Mt. Davis ruining it), but I don't think Oakland is capable of supporting baseball anymore.

    They do need to move. I'd love Portland for them. I don't think the AAA Beavers got a ton of support when they were there, but I don't really know why. I would love to see the A's move there and get the Colorado Rockies type support. (They said Denver couldn't support baseball either.)

    Sacramento. They support the Rivercats very well. But, I mean, expanding Raley field would be the least of the problems. That stadium has some pretty limited access. It would be pretty congested in West Sac come MLB game-time. I'd feel much better about the A's out in Sac. But I don't feel like they'd be supported very well out there. Just a feeling.

    I see why the A's want San Jose. San Jose is growing. (About a million people now, but they add about 10,000 a year.) But, really, what they want (and what the Giants are trying to protect) is the businesses in Silicon Valley. What is that worth? Not just now, but later. I don't think MLB or A's can ever put a compensatory value on it that the Giants won't feel is WAY too low.

    I'm going off the board here. And it's going to seem pretty silly as a landing spot for the A's: Montreal. That town supported the Expos in Olympic Stadium when there was any hope. And that was, from what I understand, just a terrible place to see a ball game. When they were trying to save the Expos, I heard there was decent stadium proposal (LaBatt's had the naming rights?) that died for whatever reason. I know it will never happen, but I think Montreal got shafted with an awful stadium and a moribund (in the end) franchise. I know it's off topic, and sounds crazy. But you get the right stadium in the right place and things can turn around. (Like for the Giants.)

    I never felt the A's were embraced in the Bay Area. Always 2nd to the Giants, on-field success be damned. As Doc points out, there was always a Carny side-show feel to the A's. I think the A's need to be in a single-team market and shake off what I think is an inferiority complex. San Jose won't allow them to do that.

    I'm wondering how much Selig wants to force this.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Good points, Kelly. Since potential alternative sites for the A's is part of the discussion, Montreal is not off-topic at all! Great idea!

    ReplyDelete
  21. OK, now its definitely time for those damn A's to go somewhere else: they hired Chili Davis as their hitting coach.

    BaseballJunkie/Anon/Lucky - I enjoyed the Portland discussions.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I remember how excited I was when Chili Davis came up as a rookie. I thought the Giants had found their next superstar. Chili was a good Giant, but they found their true star soon after in Will Clark.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Some interesting things to note here. There is an undercurrent of resentment towards selling the property near the Shark Tank to the A's. From what I have read Mayor Chuck Reed wants to sell the property at below market value to woo The A's to downtown San Jose. From what I read in the San Jose Mercury News,there are quite a few San Joseans that are none to pleased with this idea. The city of San Jose wants to come to agreement as quickly as possible with the A's so that this issue can make it onto the April ballot for a vote. As a native San Jose kid (I am 47) I have seen what voters have done in the past... Approval will be somewhat difficult to pass. Also the relocation of the San Jose Giants will be interesting. As we all know, The parent club owns a portion of the SJ Giants. As for taking the big clubs fanbase? Younger generations will take them as their own, but just like what you wrote, some news fans could come from the East Bay. I for one have no problems having The A's move down here. I saw first hand what it was like having The Sharks come here. It completely pumped money into downtown SJ. Restaurants, bars, and hotels benefited from having hockey there. The biggest upside for me would be cutting my drive by an half hour coming from Santa Cruz to watch my beloved Giants stomp on The A's in SJ. It should be interesting to see how this plays out

    ReplyDelete
  24. Like you DrB, I was age two when the Giants arrived in our beloved city by the bay. I share many of your thoughts and opinions on being brought up a passionate Giants fan - even when it was just you and 6,000 other diehards at the Stick and San Jose was mostly orchards. Like you I resented the A's winning championships, but reserved my hate for the Dodgers (Friday night games were the best).

    1. The Giants received NO compensation when the A's carpetbagged into town. The A's had a very real and negative long term impact on the Giants fanbase and fortunes (along with some really bad management decisions/trades by the Giants owners).

    2. Yes, the A's Walter Hass did "give" the Giants the rights to the South Bay for free when the Giants were looking to move to the South Bay. But again the A's paid no territory fee when moving in from Kansas City.

    I am all for the Giants aggressively staking their claim to their South Bay territory. Also if necessary, they should extract the highest fee/long term fee possible for allowing the A's to move in. At a minimum the territory fee could act as bridge financing until the mortgage is paid off (2019?) to allow the Giants to spend while they have the pitching staff in place.

    I am also bummed for the SJ Giants if this move takes place. Really fun to drive up from Monterey to see the little Giants. Again I hope the Giants really demand a large long term fee as they effectively are losing two franchise territories and should be exceedingly well compensated for this loss.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Thanks for the nice comments, everybody. Something to keep an eye on for sure.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Just had an off the wall thought - what about a draft pick compensation package as partial payment from both the A's and MLB? One problem I have with a big cash payment is it goes behind the Giants well guarded and secretive kimono, one of the big frustrations anyway with fans sick of hearing about rainy day funds.

    The only reason that it might be considered: look at all these new rules for comp picks for small market teams. They have a lottery for 1st round and compensation picks? Fine, Bud, deal us in big time.

    How about the A's give up 5 of their first round picks in the next ten years as direct compensation, one every other year, not bottom 10 protected. In the off years, MLB give the Giants one of these compensation picks they're dolling out to these poor small market teams.

    That way fans could have a very direct view into the compensation, painful directly for the A's, and some serious compensation from MLB as well. Oh, and have Wolff throw in 50-75MM for the ownership group as well. He's built up his rainy day fund and theirs needs a big kick start.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Lots of great comments and ideas, very interesting!

    There is no way the MLB will give the Giants picks, and no way the As give up their picks unprotected. But I would certainly be all for it! :).

    The comp will be like Os, some big cash plus ownership of joint broadcast rights which vests over time back to As, most probably. Wolff might rather to tear the bandaid off quick and use just cash, he's a billionaire and pretty old, I would want to wait that out.


    Though the more I think about his age, the more I think his only purpose has been to move the As to San Jose and be the face during that, then Fisher becomes managing owner. Wolff is older than Magowan or Neukom, he is 77 and in his 80's by the time any SJ stadium is done, assuming he lives that long. But he grew up in South Bay, made his billions in real estate, which is perfect for getting the stadium done, and land purchases, and the money to get it all done.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I love forgathering utile info, this post has got me even more info! .

    ReplyDelete