It's official! Tony Vitello is the new Giants manager. No details available yet but I doubt Vitello would leave his rock-solid job as head baseball coach at University of Tennessee for anything less than a rock-solid multi-year contract that pays significantly more then the $3 M/yr he's been getting at Tennessee. After several weeks of interviewing exclusively ex-catchers, Buster makes his decision and hires an ex.......well, he's not an ex anything! He never played or coached professional baseball even at the minor league level! So what's Vitello's cred?
He played college ball at University of Missouri with Max Scherzer and earned degrees in management both as an undergraduate and in a masters program. He used those skills to become an impact college baseball coach with a reputation for not only being a big motivator but a stickler for "fundamental" baseball, whatever that means. It seems Scherzer thinks very highly of him and thinks he will make a fine MLB manager. Does that mean we might see Mad Max in a Giants uniform next season in the Justin Verlander role? Hey! Maybe Buster can sign both Verlander and Scherzer!
Reports say Vitello has been on Buster Posey's radar for at least several months, maybe even for years. It seems they have had many deep conversations about the game of baseball and how it should be played and their ideas are in synch. While I have no idea if their ideas are what will transform the Giants but I find it encouraging that both men appear to be very thoughtful about the game and are both continually searching for improvement.
I like that Vitello has formal education in management. While managing people in any capacity is very much an art and in inborn talent, it's also very much a science. The days of hiring an ex-player just because they "know the game" and/or are great guys in the clubhouse should be a relic of the past. Yes, you need someone who knows the game and has the right personality but you also need someone who understands the science of leading and motivating people, as baseball players are people with people personalities and people problems just like all the rest of us.
What I do think is an open question is how veteran MLB players will react to leadership from someone who never had any formal contact with the professional side of the game. Mike Krukow, who is way older than old-school has already sounded that alarm. It would not be a surprise if other old-schoolers like Will Clark and J. T. Snow chimed in with their 2-cents worth. If they do, and if Buster is committed to seeing this through, then he needs to find a way to lower those guys profile in the organization. The last thing this team needs is another 4-5 years of influential ex-players carping about lack of respect for the game and about playing the game the "right way."
As a fan, I am excited by this bold decision and am rooting hard for it to work out. As for any predictions about that, as always, I remain cautiously optimistic.
I can't say either way on VITELLO but I do like his background as far as running the team between the lines...The clubhouse and beyond? I don't know...But BUSTER has got to feel pretty confident...I hear the concern that KRUKOW has raised and there is merit to it.. So maybe instead of minmizing any further feeding of the alarm fire...maybe POSEY (and VITELLO) talk to old school these guys for their input and maybe even somebody is hired to VITELLO's staff that is more old school and lived the baseball life.
ReplyDeleteThe only negative for me is that this might mean that the ex-VOL rabid puppy dog Drew Gilbert stays around!!
We shall see on everything.. Go Blue Jays!!!
SteveVA
LOL Drew Gilbert.....
DeleteGiants were 16-14 in Gilbert's CGs.
DeleteHe was also part of that streak at the end of August into September when the Giants went 13-3 in the games he played in. He had an OPS of .877 in those games, OPS .877!
We're cautiously optimistic, too. Still, besides reception by veteran players, two other concerns: Is this just Posey pushing more buttons ("thinking outside the box"), rather than formulating a real plan? Also, will the Giants now settle on a rotation of Webb, Ray, Roupp, Tidwell (ex-Tenn. player) and Scherzer (good friend of Vitello) ... and favor playing Gilbert as a mainstay in the outfield?
ReplyDeleteI am a fan of the hire and actually prefer his hire to Nick Hundley. I know this is coming at a high cost to the Giants ownership -- and while I strongly strongly believe ownership has the funds to spend more money. I do think coaching a big market inefficiency, and I hope they don't only spend money on the Manager, but also shell out for the best coaches money can buy.
ReplyDelete- Fan
Was driving home from the City this afternoon listening to Tim Kawakami interview Dave Fleming discussing and grappling with the very points you raise. The most hopeful comment was a comparison with Jim Harbaugh, who had no problem communicating and motivating players from Division II through NFL veterans. Fleming stressed that Posey doesn't want to be buddy-buddy with the opposing teams and doesn't mind offending them with intensity and Fleming believes Vitello shares this approach, and this is just how Harbaugh acted when he got the Stanford job and continued into the NFL. And there's no question that Harbaugh's teams at every level are detail-oriented, largely mistake-free, intense teams. I could see that playing out favorably.
ReplyDeleteOr of course Vitello could be Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly, etc .....
If nothing else, this should be entertaining.
Wow, Urban Meyer & Chip Kelly in one sentence.
DeleteDid you mean to contrast the highly successful Meyer – 3 national championships, tied for 4th – with the mostly unsuccessful Kelly?
Great post Doc! As a Hawaii college baseball fan, I feel for the Tennessee fans who loved Vitelo, as a Giants fan I'm excited about this bold out of the box move by Buster. I'm sure the Giants have done their homework and have every reason to believe this will be a great hire.My guess is former padres manager Jayce Tingler will have a high position on the coaching staff. They played together at Missouri. What stood out to me in the press release is Vitello's commitment to developing young players. Giants could use some help in this area at the major league level. While Landon Roupp made great progress, Birdsong took a step back. They have several young position players who can't seem to make the jump from AAA to majors. Why did it take Lee so long to make the adjustment to hit to all fields instead of pulling the ball all the time.Vitelo must have had a lot of success developing players into 1st round draft picks at Tennessee. Very impressive and not easy to do. Look forward to the press conference. Go Giants!
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason why either Hundley or Casali can't possibly be pitching coach. I like this choice.
ReplyDeleteI give Buster a ton of credit for taking a chance on someone he believes in. One question we should be asking ourselves though is does this signal a rebuild? New coaches typically get 1-2 years to right the ship so does this effectively mean we may not compete until 2028? I’m more than ok if that is the case I just wonder if they would be honest with the fans about it. It would give Vitello the next 3 drafts to build the future of this team with players he has intimate knowledge of. Maybe the most overlooked aspect of this signing is going to be his influence in the draft room over the next few years with basically a scouts eye on some of the best draft prospects in baseball.
ReplyDeleteEverything we've seen from Buster so far tells us he expects to see immediate improvement while at the same time building for the long game. I will add that I hope the assumption that ex-Tennessee players will get preferential treatment from Vitello is a false assumption.
DeleteI wasn’t necessarily thinking ex Tennessee players I was thinking all college players he is famiiar wth from playing against them over the last few years. He has better knowledge than anyone else previously stepping into a managing role coming straight from the biggest prospect pool in the draft!
DeleteNgl the first thing I thought when reading that Vitello one of his biggest attributes is being a great motivator combined with being pretty young/inexperienced is "sounds a little like Kapler, uh oh", but I will give Buster the benefit of the doubt still at this point and just hope my fear is wrong, lol.
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify btw, I don't think that Kapler and Vitello are all that similar, the only thing that made me think of Kapler was the disconnect between him and the players, and in my opinion great motivators can often get stale if that's all that they're about. Motivational speeches and what not can only go so far and might be great for a single game or single moment but eventually you have to have something substantial to carry you through the long haul of anything. So yea I hope this turns into something great and I hope we see him be much more than "just" a great motivator.
DeleteI live 20 miles from knoxville and have been following Tony for years, I think he is a great choice. Took the Vols from the bottom of the SEC to perennial national championship contenders. 241-91 over the last 5 seasons. Plus...if you like Drew Gilbert's enthusiasm, that's instilled by Tony Vitello.
ReplyDeleteHmmm.......maybe Drew Gilbert has just a little too much enthusiasm?
DeleteI like Gilbert's enthusiasm . Maybe he could tone it down a little. Buster reportedly liked it since it showed Gilbert was always engaged in every game he played. When Yaz left he said the team needed to play more with an edge. I'm thinking maybe this is part of the reason Vitelo was hired.
DeleteFrom nbssports.com, Vitello's contract is $3.5M annually for 3 years. Seems to me when the average mlb player salary is $5M a year that this hiring is a bargain. I am for it! As the comparisons of Vitello to Gabe Kapler, that seems to be way off. From what I read, Vitello is a fundamentals first guy with a background in managing teams and players. As we remember, Kapler lost the clubhouse his last season. It will be interesting to see what the 2026 Giants team performance and vibe looks like. How many rallies did we see fizzle this last year with players striking out instead of going the other way or at least moving runners over.
ReplyDeleteAs far as a rebuild year, I don't think that will be the objective with the Giants having Adames, Devrs and Chapman on long term contracts. Go Toronto this year, go Giants next year!
Derald Cook
Kapler was innovative and I really liked his vision for a coordinated organization from the DSL to the MLB level and he added a lot of coaches to teach fundamentals too, but Kapler was all wrapped up in the analytics and seemed to be pathologically incapable of exercising the clubhouse leadership piece which is also critical to MLB managing success. I still remember an on-field interview he gave during a game early in his managing career with the Phillies and with kind of a pressured speech he let out a string of sports motivational cliches. I just rolled my eyes and said "I can't imagine listening to this guy in a clubhouse every day." Turns out maybe that was the tell of what kind of manager he would turn out to be. Not saying Vitello is any different because I don't know much about him but based on what I've read it seems like he is able to relate to players on a much more personal level than Kapler was. Bob Melvin seemed to maybe have the clubhouse leadership thing down but also seemed to be weak on analytics and fundamentals. One more thought: While analytics and fundamentals are not the same thing, I believe analytics inform fundamentals. Analytics tells you what you need to work on and how to measure the results.
DeleteHmm....maybe that reply was a whole separate post?
DeleteWhile Kepler's staff may have been wrapped up in the fundamentals and sweated all the details. The teams on the field I did not always feel like were playing that way. Particularly defensively the teams were not crisp at all -- with the lone exception being 2021. I do suspect that had more to do with Zaidi not really caring that much about defense.
Delete- Fan
Your "whole separate post" seems on point. In that vein, I don't think Buster hated playing for Kapler in 2021. Kapler had some interesting ideas about player support and ongoing coaching at the ML level that I suspect Buster appreciated. He certainly had a pretty good year himself and my have availed himself of some of the enhanced data support. So perhaps VItello can combine some of the useful aspects of Kapler with more traditional coaching and leadership. Or so we'll need to hope.
DeleteThat was pretty good insight.
DeleteVitello is going to have to find that sweet spot of being motivational and also deferential to the old timers who won't buy-in automatically because he hasn't done his time in the big-leagues. Some players will be able to assimilate and others will see that as insurmountable. Having earned management degrees (and presumably practiced those lessons in high level college situations) , Vitello should know the techniques that will work with young men and be able to figure it out. The key will be to get them all focused on doing whatever it takes to win. Need a bunt? Lay down a bunt. Need to hit the cutoff man? Hit the cutoff man. Play for the name on the front of your jersey, not for the back of your baseball card. It will be entertaining to see how it goes.
Interesting your Spidey-sense went off listening to Kapler spew cliches during an interview. On one hand, I always kind of excuse what players and coaches say during interviews, as it's almost always empty calories and rarely insightful. On the other hand, when I saw an '24 early season in-game interview with Snell it felt very, very wrong to me. He was completely uninvested. Could almost predict, at that point, he would not be coming back in '25.
DeleteAs much as I appreciate Will Clark and JT Snow, they’ve won exactly the same amount of World Series trophies as the new manager. Ultimately, winning will silence doubters and losing will sound alarms, but Buster is a 3x champion managed by the greatest Giants manager in their history, has his pulse on winning and this was his choice. Rooting for him to succeed, which will depend significantly more on Devers, JHL, Chapman, and Adames hitting baseballs than it does on a new manager.
ReplyDeleteAndy in OC
I think the Krukow concern that big leaguers won’t buy into a guy who didn’t play is overrated. Maybe it hasn’t been tried out in baseball, but in basketball and football there’s been very successful coaches without much playing history. These guys are professionals, they just want to win and get better.
ReplyDeleteIMO, the real concern is just more the typical college to pros coaching concern. College coaches have so much more power and in other sports there’s been massive failures. That’s where the disconnect usually is. A college coach coming in with a big ego and failing to adjust their style to dealing with a grown professional with a contract vs a college kid relying on them for a scholarship.
I'm cautiously optimistic about this choice. We probably don't know enough about his skills to do more than just speculate about his potential for success. I echo the sentiment that someone who is a skilled communicator and player development type of motivator could be a good thing given the struggles that were seen last year. He does seem to meet an eyeball test of someone who might be in that mold. I do wonder-- who of our existing MLB managers seems to be successful at getting the most out of the talent on their team?
ReplyDeleteWhat remains to be seen is what type of coaching staff Vitello brings with him. Will he draw from the established group of MLB coaches (or Giants choices) or will he bring in some familiar faces from the college ranks?
Addressing Krukow's comments and the possible reaction by the likes of Clark and Snow - they all have one thing in common with Vitello: they won't be running on to the field and playing baseball and specifically today's baseball. A veteran player, say, 35 years old was born in 1990 and was playing little league baseball after Google was born. This is a massive generational shift and Vitello may have as good an idea as anyone how today's players tick. One thing to consider on the critical side is Vitello has little involvement on the org level with Latino and Asian players. I have no idea if this will work and it's easy for me to like the move since it's costing me nothing but as a Giants fan possibly for as long as The Doctor, I am excited - it at least grabbed a few headlines before the Bums use their billion dollar payroll to steamroll to a repeat. Finally, I so appreciate your blog. Thanks! -es
ReplyDeleteWhat a roll of the dice!
ReplyDeleteLet's hope the odds are better than having to throw a seven!
(Or make a point.)
College coaches develop young players that they recruited and have a vested interest.
They play 4 or 5 games a week, rarely more, maybe 50-56 games a season, with conference play (sort of like the regular season) from mid-March to mid-May. 56 games is the limit.
Managing pitchers is very different: starters typically 1 game per week. Cannot overuse starters or relievers.
Travel is not brutal (mostly).
College coaches main job is recruitment (taking top high schoolers away from the University of Florida and Florida State) and development of raw talent into gamers.
Many are called but few are chosen.
He's swapping young, impressionable kids who often say "Yes, sir!" for grisly veterans who have their own agendas.
Posey is smart — if this works, he's a genius.
I'm sure the Giants player development people including their scouts know about Viitelo and the Tennessee program. I remember Baggs on KNBR a few days ago suggesting that maybe the Giants hiring of Tony Vitelo doesnt happenif it wasn't for Drew Gilbert. He brought energy to the clubhouse that Buster felt was missing. Baggs may ask Buster about how much influence he had on this, interesting to see Buster says. Yaz said when he left that the team needs to play more with an edge, Buster may feel the same way
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