tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post8629112087661511433..comments2024-03-29T02:43:41.299-07:00Comments on When the Giants Come to Town...: Thoughts on the Giants Developing PitchersDrBGiantsfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05574563470247927739noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-10226542946450832562013-09-01T18:21:32.967-07:002013-09-01T18:21:32.967-07:00I believe individual scouts/coaches can make a hug...I believe individual scouts/coaches can make a huge difference in an organization. Not saying there is no one else who can scout or coach pitchers or that there aren't other great people in the organization, but from everything I've read, Tidrow deserves a huge amount of credit for the 2 rings.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-76498181330097300182013-09-01T13:05:31.157-07:002013-09-01T13:05:31.157-07:00Maybe having a "pitching guru" like Dick...Maybe having a "pitching guru" like Dick Tidrow in the org has helped them find good young pitchers in the draft too. Baggs book had some interesting passages on Tidrow. He went to Seattle to scout Timmy in College and was so impressed he told Sabean not to come because he didn't want other teams to know the Giants were on to him. I agree, we could all see that Timmy had the stuff and polish for future success. Since a game at Ohio St was rained out, he went to see Johny Sanchez pitch in a small college game in Ohio. A Giants scout wrote him up earlier, and Tidrow liked what he saw. The Giants drafted Sanchez in the 27th round which qualifies as a late round gem. Tidrow wanted to draft CC Sabathia but was told there was no $$ to buy him out from his college commit. They drafted Tony Torcato instead. He's also known to visit different minor league affilliates to watch the pitchers from all different angles at the game so he could offer his advice. I wonder if the Giants would continue to be successful in developing home grown pitchers, if Dick Tidrow were to leave the Organization.<br /><br />LGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-28047227192855337232013-09-01T06:20:13.203-07:002013-09-01T06:20:13.203-07:00I didn't really address the whole dumpster div...I didn't really address the whole dumpster diving thing here, and yes, the Giants track record with pitching reclamation projects is nothing short of remarkable.<br /><br />I agree that the scouting and development probably go hand-in-hand. The scouts find pitchers who will develop well. My main point, though, was that when it comes to "homegrown" pitchers, in virtually all cases you can see that they were destined for success right from the get-go, making me think that the scouting may deserve more credit than the development.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-91529329225168210082013-09-01T00:10:57.791-07:002013-09-01T00:10:57.791-07:00I mostly agree with what DrB noted. Clearly, I th...I mostly agree with what DrB noted. Clearly, I think, the Giants KNOWS pitching. Sabean, with Tidrow, in their post draft day interview said unreservedly that they expect Bumgarner to make the majors in two years, and they called it. You cannot do that without having good scouting, and we all know Sabeans reluctance to make statements unless he is sure of it. <br /><br />Plus, we all know of Madison's struggles, and Tidrow comes in and Frank Viloa, he is fixed and ready to rock.<br /><br />But there is also development too. Most of the pitchers have their story of how they learned a new pitch while with the Giants, making them even better. That is Rags and Gardy, and I would bet some Bochy as well. <br /><br />Just because not all their students did not learn and develop mean that they are not good at development. The odds of success is so low that it would be hard to discern. I think the best way right now is to look at their success in putting together a good pitching staff, with both home grown and judicious additions. Cadillac was a cast off but added a pitch and he was a top reliever, oops, Casilla.. On that point the Giants have been great for years.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-83183490020991352182013-08-31T23:58:59.389-07:002013-08-31T23:58:59.389-07:00I look at Harvey and wonder if that is Wheeler in ...I look at Harvey and wonder if that is Wheeler in the near future. I had that thought of future injury when the trade was made and it came out that he changed back to his old mechanics for success with the Mets.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-31453798060808151042013-08-31T21:22:59.607-07:002013-08-31T21:22:59.607-07:00Not sure what to make of comments made by players ...Not sure what to make of comments made by players who were just traded. Is it a real concern or are they just PO'd at being traded and taking a shot?DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-51776510551458845002013-08-31T13:21:21.411-07:002013-08-31T13:21:21.411-07:00One thing not mentioned. Wheeler stated he also w...One thing not mentioned. Wheeler stated he also went back to his old mechanics after he was traded to the Mets and was not happy with the changes the Giants were pushing him to make. I have always thought you can tweak the mechanics a bit but the pitcher should be comfortable with his arm slot or you are asking for troubleRBJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-29686194523620556092013-08-31T12:17:33.188-07:002013-08-31T12:17:33.188-07:00Yeah, my post was more a general comment rather th...Yeah, my post was more a general comment rather than calling out Hulet specifically for being lazy or ignorant. Still, I don't think Hulet brought any new information to the table about Chris Stratton. It's true his numbers themselves aren't terrible, especially for a pitcher willing to work on fundamentals at the expense of results. But they don't look like the numbers you'd expect from a relatively mature and talented top prospect from a D1 school. I think at the lower levels we all have a prejudice for pure talent, and Chris Stratton seems to fit the mold, as the meme goes, of a pitcher not a thrower. That said, if he's got enough stuff, I wouldn't be surprised to see him skip a level during his progression.<br /><br />PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-55982640649276474592013-08-31T11:40:32.294-07:002013-08-31T11:40:32.294-07:00I take his 'The Giants know how develop pitche...I take his 'The Giants know how develop pitchers,' not a reason for you to be less concerned than others (you have valid reasons to be) but perhaps, as a something along the line of, let's wait and see what he does next year.BuyLowSellLowernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-6876984726541837202013-08-31T11:34:35.244-07:002013-08-31T11:34:35.244-07:00I think scouting and developing is more an art tha...I think scouting and developing is more an art than a science. There will be areas (pitching, types of pitching, starting, relieving, certain pitches; hitting, types of hitting; defense, etc.) that they are good at and in those areas they will hit more often and they miss. And there will be areas that they are not as strong at and they will miss often than they hit.<br /><br />Specifically with respect to pitching, I would imagine a pitcher's development includes more than just tweaking his mechanics, but encompass perhaps also pitching philosophy (spotting your fastball, don't give in, minimizing being victimized by the long ball, among other things), converting a shortstop to pitching, a reliever to starting, or the other way around, etc.<br /><br />Looking at the numbers, perhaps one can hope that Stratton is starting his career, ERA-wise (not health-wise, though he did have that case of being hit on the head last year), like Hennessey in his first healthy season (second year, as he missed, as mentioned above, his first year). <br /><br />But one is different and must follow his own path. So, we will have to wait till next year to have a better idea.BuyLowSellLowernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-50889321190056653432013-08-31T10:49:26.690-07:002013-08-31T10:49:26.690-07:00Good point about Sanchez. He's kind of an ano...Good point about Sanchez. He's kind of an anomaly but he also showed very strong numbers in his Pro Season #1, from what I remember.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-22386847936395007132013-08-31T10:48:34.044-07:002013-08-31T10:48:34.044-07:00Just to be clear here, the Giants know how to deve...Just to be clear here, the Giants know how to develop pitching was only 1 of 3 points that Hulett made about Stratton. The other two I accept as being valid, although I would probably modify his 3'rd point to say that the Giants depend more on scouting and coaching evaluations than on statistical results in evaluating their pitching prospects. Most of the successful ones have performed well, though.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-64310977213389022082013-08-31T10:33:55.571-07:002013-08-31T10:33:55.571-07:00Great research and thought provoking questions.
Y...Great research and thought provoking questions.<br /><br />You forgot Johnny Sanchez! He fits the agressive promotion profile.<br /><br />I'd say that scouting and the player being ready for competition will win out most of the time over the nurture part of it.<br /><br />I'd also note that just because we don't beat up on prospects in these parts that doesn't mean we aren't aware of the enormous odds against making the show.<br /><br />And I'd agree with Peter that its a lazy comp. How many more home grown hitters do the Gints need before that rep goes out the window? Three more? Three more.<br /><br />And one more... We might get knocked for not throwing criticisms of the Braintrust up all the time, but Chris Stratton might have been a bad call, and we have been watching that one closely.Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-44799007985015064372013-08-31T10:13:59.723-07:002013-08-31T10:13:59.723-07:00All four of your "takeaways" are valid, ...All four of your "takeaways" are valid, IMO. I'd be a bit stronger on #4 though. Stating "the Giants know how to develop pitchers," is simply a lazy man's answer, or an ignorant one's. The flip side of it are those who state that every position player the Giants draft is trash because "the Giants don't develop position players". I've already seen dismissals of Christian Arroyo's AFL MVP achievement simply because he was an "overdraft". <br /><br />PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com