tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post1573553376681455735..comments2024-03-28T23:51:34.251-07:00Comments on When the Giants Come to Town...: Down on the Farm: Dr B's PRELIMINARY 2013 Giants Top 50 ProspectsDrBGiantsfanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05574563470247927739noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-74315803856752189552012-12-20T15:00:27.476-08:002012-12-20T15:00:27.476-08:00Anyone know what Angel Villalona is up to '13?...Anyone know what Angel Villalona is up to '13? Does anyone scout this guy anymore?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-83236684604392739772012-12-15T09:12:20.463-08:002012-12-15T09:12:20.463-08:00I believe I read somewhere that Kicks is making go...I believe I read somewhere that Kicks is making good progress with his secondary stuff. The Giants are clearly developing him as a starter, but they always say that roles will be determined by team needs.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-27384731096199903362012-12-14T20:56:07.433-08:002012-12-14T20:56:07.433-08:00The #11 prospect Mike Kickham had a good year in A...The #11 prospect Mike Kickham had a good year in AA 11-10 3.05 ERA 137 K'S IN 150 IP. I've read that Kickham could move up quickly because he has a good fastball according to Baggs. I like LHP who throws hard, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what kind of progress he's made developing his breaking ball and changeup? He did walk 75 in 150 IP. I'm wondering if the Giants view him as a future starting pitcher or reliever?<br /><br />LGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-31090221644906953562012-12-14T13:39:25.320-08:002012-12-14T13:39:25.320-08:00I will do a separate list called Dominican Dandies...I will do a separate list called Dominican Dandies in which I will cover some of the DSL guys. Nobody really stood out enough to include in the Top 50 list, IMO.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-67786235110658759252012-12-14T12:15:37.439-08:002012-12-14T12:15:37.439-08:00I'm going by memory on this comment on Trout s...I'm going by memory on this comment on Trout since I no longer have my 2009 BA issues. Scouts didn't get a chance to see him play that much because he played high school baseball in New Jersey where alot of their games were affected by bad weather.. I remember the BA mock draft ranked him about where he was picked. The reason I remember him most of all is that the scouting report I read compared him to Aaron Rowand.<br /><br />I agree, it must be tough for scouts to identify hitting talent.. How can they judge a high school player's hitting talent when they are facing high school pitchers who don't throw 90 MPH?<br /><br />lg<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-78801905078461395632012-12-14T08:32:56.979-08:002012-12-14T08:32:56.979-08:00Where are some of the young Dominican hitters? Roy...Where are some of the young Dominican hitters? Royel Astacio, Hengerber Medina, Anthony Gomez, Julio Pena and Nichol Parra?<br /><br />I always enjoy your wrap ups on the DSL games and have started to like and follow these guys.Clintnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-6571944635455629662012-12-13T11:13:53.775-08:002012-12-13T11:13:53.775-08:00Hey, Brian Buscher has a nice major league career ...Hey, Brian Buscher has a nice major league career out of the Giants minor league system, as the Twins picked him up from us and started him, though he was never that good, at least offensively. So I totally agree with DrB that Conor will probably be signed as a free agent after waivers - I think he's out of options and I see no way either of him sticking - by a team with a 3B opening (or weakness), and they will keep him around for competition. Since hitting is his big tool, he probably will get picked by an AL team that can give him plenty of DH opportunities as well. <br /><br />He probably did come back too early. I'm no Dr but two weeks seems too soon to come back to running around as a baseball player with your toe recently broken. I know that was always a problem with Schierholtz, so this wouldn't surprise me if other players did this too. And I can understand that impulse, but really, get healthy first. <br /><br />FYI, BABIP is not league driven but career numbers driven, and that for major league numbers for sure. DrB disagreed with me before, but I like to look at prospects' minor league BABIP to at least get an idea of what type of BABIP he has done before, and to see outliers, like you are trying to do here. But I see DrB's point, each league is very different (EL extreme pitchers league, PCL extreme hitters league), so it is not a straight forward comparison, but I think that insight can still be derived if handled right.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-63531346853627303082012-12-13T10:59:16.055-08:002012-12-13T10:59:16.055-08:00Maybe this will also illustrate how hard it is to ...Maybe this will also illustrate how hard it is to identify hitting talent. I was looking through my BA prospect book at the draft, and realized that Mike Trout was the 25th pick of the 2009 Draft. <br /><br />MIKE TROUT! I think I've read comparisions of him and Willie Mays. You know how great he is and how young he was, yet 24 teams (including the Giants) bypassed him to pick someone else in 2009 (we got Zack Wheeler). So, was almost everybody in baseball stupid and the Angels smart, or is it just that hard for professional scouts to see exactly what it is that makes one prospect Mike Trout the 25th pick, another one Matt Bush the first pick overall (and Tim Beckham is looking to join that latter category), when it should be Mike Trout, #1 pick? (OK, the Matt Bush pick was already a big push when it was made, so maybe bad example)<br /><br />And to be accurate, I would say that Washington was right to pick Strasberg first, but the other guys, not so much. <br /><br />Looking through my BA profile of Trout, it did note that he fell to 25th because he put out a $3.5M bonus demand, reportedly. So at least he recognized his talents, if not the MLB. It also noted that 22 teams passed on him, so there were two teams that passed on him TWICE. ouch... <br /><br />All in all, examples like this that I've seen in the draft (I've combed through a lot of the history of the draft) convinces me that it just is that hard to identify exactly what it is that makes a prospect a major league player. There are maybe 5-6 clear favorites, generally, but even among those, around 55% failed to become a good baseball player. Then it just way worse after that. <br /><br />That's why I think the Phoenix Rebuilding Theory I've put out there, where you sell off all valuable remaining players in order to get the prospect to build on for the future (and I have see this happen over and over in the past, Connie Mack with the Philly A's, Charlie O. Finley with the Oakland A's, Expos, Marlins, and Tigers under Dombrowski, I guess Beane too, to go with the A's history trail), is the fastest way to rebuild. Whether you purposefully lose or trade off all good player and give your prospects the opportunity, potato, pohtato, that gets you a great draft pick in the first round, in the fishing in the barrel section of the draft, rather than the fishing in the Bay section of the draft, and much better than the fishing in the ocean that is mostly the draft.<br /><br />Not that teams cannot be bad at developing players or certain types of players. But given Posey, Sandoval, Belt as great hitting products out of the system, I think we can take that final negative label off of Sabean's lapel and discard it as false. <br /><br />Or one could research this and easily see this. Pick any good GM, in your mind, and pull out all the drafts he has been in control of, and see how he has done. Has he filled out a team, top to bottom, with good players at every starting position plus closer? How many good hitters have he actually drafted and developed? Can't count guys he inherited (for example, Cashman inherited, I believe, Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, and Riviera; I know the latter two were not drafted, but the key parts of this Yankees dyansty, I believe were in place before he became GM). I've seen enough to say that most likely: No.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-36030765751881220292012-12-13T06:52:32.719-08:002012-12-13T06:52:32.719-08:00Well, there is a huge shortage at 3B throughout ba...Well, there is a huge shortage at 3B throughout baseball. Because of that, I could see Gillaspie winding up in another organization. Barring an injury to Pablo or Pablo ballooning to 400 lbs, neither in impossibility BTW, I just don't see room on the 25 man roster for Conor. I think he has to stick this year or be exposed to waivers. He just hasn't shown any versatility in what position he plays and he looked so overwhelmed in his cup of coffee.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-64576397144153379192012-12-13T06:19:44.386-08:002012-12-13T06:19:44.386-08:00I'm here to talk about Gillaspie of course...
...I'm here to talk about Gillaspie of course...<br /><br />His BABIP dropped lower from 2011 to 2012. Average PCL BABIP was .320, his was a bit below .300. I think he still has a future, but maybe I'm even more alone in this than I was a year ago.<br /><br />He also had a broken toe in July 2012 and came back after just two weeks, maybe too early? His numbers were better than 2011 before that injury.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434122629151059146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-38138550784609311612012-12-12T19:59:00.254-08:002012-12-12T19:59:00.254-08:00DrB - there is another Dominican Dandy signing fro...DrB - there is another Dominican Dandy signing from January of this year. Skinny tall 6'4 kid. I had forgotten about it for a while, there was a photo posted up in the MCC prospect ranking. They paid 250K for him.Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-58502379239675964752012-12-12T19:52:08.584-08:002012-12-12T19:52:08.584-08:00On the Wheeler trade, there was an interesting art...On the Wheeler trade, there was an interesting article that centered around how long the trade actually took to come about. It was from the Mets perspective for the most part, and one of the things they had to do is sort through all the offers and decide what they wanted. Then the Giants had to decide. I enjoyed it because it showed how long and drawn out it can be, and how much work goes into evaluating a player and a prospect. It took longer of course because Don Carlos had a no-trade clause, and would only take a contender. I guess with most trades the teams all know the needs of other teams, so it shouldn't be a shocker, but my only complaint about the trade was the Giants might have wanted to take the Mets down to the wire to pressure that no-trade deadline of theirs, they had to commit before any other team. However, in the end, I was psyched to have Beltran, he was the best hitter IMO on the market. I was doing a jig. <br /><br />Didn't turn out. Hurt, wouldn't play until fully healthy, and then put up what looked like to me a pretty empty set of hitting feasting off of NL West callup pitching. If he hadn't done that, folks would have been calling for Sabean's head. Instead they had to wait another month until the not signing and then call for his head. DrB had a great piece about that. It still drives me crazy the FO is blamed for not making a move... a move 27 other FOs decided to emulate. <br /><br />And that's the last thing - the fact the Giants have come out and set the record straight, on Beltran's statements as well as Cody Ross's. They did have conversations, in Ross's case they had a deal he backed out of. For them to take advantage of the Giants non-disclosure monks of MLB tendencies, that was weak. I boo'd the hell out of Don Carlos from the 20th row baby! Proud of it. Holiday too, it was the Scutaro take out game. I'm glad Bobby Evans stepped up on that. Now we'll see what Don Carlos has left in the tank. If he had quit on us in the NLCS like he did on the cards, that would have been heartbreaking. Quit too strong? Injured is fine. That is the risk they took, and it cost em. It goes back to those risk factors we're talking about. Now the Cards are locked into that 2nd year, and with Furcal too. Giants went a different direction, and suddenly the cry is for more vets? Hmmm... Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-52304045826253184082012-12-12T19:46:56.904-08:002012-12-12T19:46:56.904-08:00We're over 100 responses to this post. I thin...We're over 100 responses to this post. I think that is the first time in the history of the blog we've done that. Keep up the good work, everybody!DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-3688488345062334272012-12-12T19:45:50.090-08:002012-12-12T19:45:50.090-08:00I'll look up his stats again. I thought about...I'll look up his stats again. I thought about him for the Top 50 then thought might be better to mention him as a Dominican Dandy. Good thought on Mella. Possibly yet another interesting Giants pitching prospect.DrBGiantsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699322384438591979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-50060914940962157162012-12-12T19:42:02.065-08:002012-12-12T19:42:02.065-08:00Alright OGC, here ya go: Profile on a the Giants C...Alright OGC, here ya go: Profile on a the Giants CIO, gent by the name of Bill Schlough. I wasn't looking for it, a poster on the Pavlov blog put it up. I know you and DrB occasionally are on there and post very infrequently, Bacci does on occasion. I think a few posters are quite good, but there is a lot of clutter on that joint, its hard to sift through.<br /><br />http://www.informationweek.com/global-cio/interviews/9-inspiring-innings-with-sf-giants-cio-b/240144103#<br /><br />and from a couple years ago:<br />http://www.informationweek.com/telecom/voip/dear-sf-giants-cio-im-sorry/228200051<br /><br />Here is the part from the 2nd article that will catch your attention: <br /><br />The team also has cameras -- part of its Sportvision Player Tracking System -- installed throughout the upper reaches of the stadium to track player movement, taking measure of every rounded base and every dive along the third base line. The team uses this video for player tracking, examining a player's range, let's say, or his real speed around the bases (rather than the less accurate stop watch). Spray charts tell where every ball was hit, and where every player was when the ball was hit. And all of that data gets processed and crunched and viewed. <br /><br />(end quote) <br />I'm thinking that one of the best advantages is seeing our NL West foes. It allows for better positioning in the 2nd half of the season. That would be the use that stands out to me. <br /><br />I love the picture of some stats geek chasing after Bochy with some color print outs. Not the way it goes down, but its a funny mixture the Giants have.<br /><br />But here's my point about this CIO: doesn't it completely fly in the face of every meme and joke about the Giants that they have people this bright doing work? The Giants just have a more low profile about it, and a staff that self deprecates. I really hope they keep that up. Winning is fun, if they can somehow manage to be unspoiled by winning, that is amazingly special.Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-13280032984647006662012-12-12T19:39:14.910-08:002012-12-12T19:39:14.910-08:00What about Keury Mella? I hear hes touching mid 90...What about Keury Mella? I hear hes touching mid 90's as a 19 year old.Varunhttp://levislanding.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-88829131491023128272012-12-12T19:35:34.303-08:002012-12-12T19:35:34.303-08:00On the other stuff, well, I guess its a butterfly ...On the other stuff, well, I guess its a butterfly effect. Those doors were opened, one at a time. Sabean famously wore his 2002 NL ring to remind himself how close we got. And that's where it gets a little old for me on the bash Sabean train, the guy wears his heart on his sleeve, if you care to look for it. One of the things that I just could not figure out is if Sabean is such a total jerk, how are all these guys working with him, I mean working with him big time, for so long. Why is there so little turnover? Now I do have a couple inside sources that say Sabean can be a tad awkward socially, but I'm not going to hold that against the guy. He's just plain spoken in a world that expects a bunch of corporate truisims. Maybe that is going to simple, or too far, and Sabey Sabes could use a PR polish, his mouth has definitely got him in trouble. However, I still find it refreshing.<br /><br />And that's one thing that I realized. I just don't like the new age MBA type Gms. While I think WAR is a fun tool, ultimately I just don't care where the most efficiency is. I love Campanari's Accountant Eyeshade comment. I'm totally using that all the time from now on. I'll credit him like... every sixth time. Its all fun to examine the economic part of the game, and you do have to marshall resources, that's all good. But in the end, what is important? Getting the best haul of prospects and increasing your WAR ratios? Putting money in the owners pockets? Being a hero at all costs with the world beating you down and having a tiny budget? All ownership groups have demands, and issues. Each situation is uniquely different. There is no guarantee that one of the small market GMs with money to spend would do anything nearly as wise. And from that vantage, I've really come around to your view on just how much of a cramp the ownership group has been in the past on Sabean. (I'm not giving you Rowand though!) <br /><br />Anyways, like we've been saying, Sabean is a unique piece of history, a GM that stretches an entire generation of Giants fans. I think that is awesome and amazing, and very very doubtful it will be replicated any time soon. I'm very glad he got a chance at a second act, and I'm glad he crushed it. Great American story, and everybody loves a comeback.<br /><br />As I've got more experience on the interwebz, I realize why you and DrB say things a certain way sometimes. I'll give your careful wording of studies as the example. Now I realize what its like to put up something and have it get torn into. You used to cite your own work, but now you just can't be bothered, so you defer to the HBT, BP, etc. Its smart. Sad that people can't be more thoughtful, but smart on your part to just change up your game.<br /><br />I think the Gints are good at changing up your game. I stumbled on some info about this camera system. I'm gonna post up some links.Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-67378333902545077122012-12-12T17:04:08.341-08:002012-12-12T17:04:08.341-08:00Thanks for sharing the BA article info. I don'...Thanks for sharing the BA article info. I don't want the Giants to give up on him either. I still think that potential is still in there. <br /><br />Decker is now the roving batting instructor, right? Good advice to Noonan, it clearly seems, as it was his best season in a long while. Now he needs to build on that in 2013, he's still young, and he could cut his teeth being a good utility guy for us, and maybe figure it out later, give Panik some competition for the starting position.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-28469850560307958902012-12-12T16:59:07.649-08:002012-12-12T16:59:07.649-08:00As I noted, lots of strikeouts. :^)
Yes, horribl...As I noted, lots of strikeouts. :^)<br /><br />Yes, horrible contact rates, but I've seen too many of these low contact rate, big HR guys fly up the D-backs system and do OK enough in the majors. At this point, to drive home that core group theme that you have been using, we have the core, we only need complimentary players to fill out the team and still win with our pitching, and if Duvall can deliver the HR power, say, in the 6-7 spot, a lot of strikeouts is acceptable. <br /><br />But yeah, to your point, with his contact rates, he needs to prove it at every level he gets promoted to, and moreover, as everybody knows, the leap to AA is the first big chasm suspect prospects need to cross to more to serious prospectdom on the other side, if he makes it. And even top prospects need to cross that AA chasm to keep their prospectdom. obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-51264168387699980162012-12-12T16:52:30.617-08:002012-12-12T16:52:30.617-08:00What you say makes sense. Just had to throw that ...What you say makes sense. Just had to throw that thought out, you are right that there isn't enough talent just to do that.<br /><br />But it is not exactly that. They wanted Beltran to push for the flag. Their choice was not to just trade to make a statement that "hey, we are OK to trade with". Their choice was either Brown or Wheeler. Given that both timetables look to be out to 2014 at minimum, and to your point, they had Crick in hand, could giving up Wheeler, if he was viewed as only slightly better than Brown (versus the view as you noted that Wheeler is a top line pitcher), been partly done to goose future trades? Again, just a thought, but now a fading thought as you make good points.<br /><br />Forgot all about the bullpen comment. That is a strong statement considering most people viewed Lincecum as a sure bullpen pitcher and they said, no way, he's a starter. <br /><br />I would note that the Giants have mucked with pitchers mechanics before. Screwed around with Simon's when they got him from the Phillies. They messed around with Bumgarner but then decided to let him go, at which point he dominated. And also Wheeler's. Though openly said that they were not touching Lincecum's. I would also note that perhaps Wheeler's blister issues had to do with his modified mechanics per the Giants changes, and now it's better since he went back to his old way.<br /><br />I would also note that DrB ripped me a new one :^) for bringing up Sabean's trade record as a way to denigrate Wheeler's potential. And rightfully so. But you bring up other good points why he's not as stellar a prospect as might might think looking at his stats. He could be a Francisco Liriano redux, making a splash in the majors but then bouncing up and down as his body fails him. <br /><br />I would throw out Homer Bailey as another example of a pitcher who looked like a sure thing in the minors, only to not figure it out in the majors. Heck, throw out AFW in there too. obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-39252588446580449722012-12-12T16:38:39.248-08:002012-12-12T16:38:39.248-08:00The problem, again, is not so much developing hitt...The problem, again, is not so much developing hitters as spending most of your first round bullets on pitchers until recent drafts, when the Giants drafted Posey, Brown, and Panik (not coincident that they were our top hitters in the farm system). Once you get beyond that, there are a lot of flaws that need to be fixed before they can be good hitters, generally.<br /><br />Thinking further, another way to look at this is that you can't teach a hitter bat speed, per se, either you got it or you don't for the most part, unless your mechanics were really bad when drafted (like Belt's). That is a major component to hitting. However, while pitchers can likewise not be taught velocity, for the most part, pitchers can and do learn pitches that greatly improve their performances. Plus learn how to mix and match pitches in order to trick hitters, even when their stuff is not as great when they are older. <br /><br />That is something hitters cannot pick up, they mainly need a lot of AB's (I think the Giants tout 1,000 plate appearances) against good pitchers to learn and develop. Hitters is a matter of reps and latent talent, pitchers no matter how much talent they got, they need to have the pitches in the their repertoire and a way of mixing them up, as well as some talent.obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-85042792868991699572012-12-12T11:57:11.041-08:002012-12-12T11:57:11.041-08:00Wheeler trade. I don't think think there is e...Wheeler trade. I don't think think there is enough talent in baseball to play games with trading away better talent to grease wheels. I do agree with you that Wheeler's struggles made him an ETA 2014 or even later, remember he had a good recovery upon being traded to the Mets, and finished the season strong. There was some talk of him going back to his original HS delivery, that surprised me because usually the Giants don't mess a ton with mechanics and they were messing with his.<br /><br />I would note that the draft had happened, and they had Crick in the fold. I'm not sure how they felt about Blackburn at that moment in time, he was still more of a sleeper HS guy that one scout got on his soapbox for most likely. But its possible they looked at the rest of the crew and said OK, we'll rest on our laurels of pitching development with what we have and what we'll go get in the future. <br /><br />I think Wheeler is a great prospect and it hurt to lose him. I would rather have lost him than Brown though. That's not looking good now, but nothing is decided yet. Two things stick out to me, and I started with saying he's a wonderful prospect because I don't like it when fans denigrate a player after he leaves, but these two things stood out: 1. Sabean called him a possible bullpen arm as an aside while he was talking about its his and Tidrow's job to get more pitching. 2. Wheeler does have the dreaded inverted W just like Strasburg. I was always a bit scared he was more of an injury risk. Then you throw the blister issues on top, and I didn't get the feeling he was as blue chip as Cain/Bumgarner. And last, I tried to reassure myself that they wouldn't let him go if they felt that way, and hey look at Sabean's record with trading. <br /><br />I think its going to get sorely tested. Wheeler looks very sweet. But as we've seen with Trevor Bauer, and countless others, its one thing to tear up the minors, its another to get in the majors and do it. I'm also bummed because Wheeler seems like a great guy. But flags fly forever. Instant challenge trade, we lost. I'm glad, so glad, they didn't chase Beltran and sign him to a big contract to justify it.Shankbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04803824507120403397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-6036035034651415112012-12-12T11:43:11.146-08:002012-12-12T11:43:11.146-08:00uh, POSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PiLamBearuh, POSEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />PiLamBearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-14367074266031332722012-12-12T11:23:55.101-08:002012-12-12T11:23:55.101-08:00Speaking of Joe Nathan, along the lines of DrB'...Speaking of Joe Nathan, along the lines of DrB's "what might have happened", had he not been traded, we would not have had the Benitez disaster signing, nor the closer disaster area that we had during that period. That definitely would have pushed our picks back in the draft, enough that we probably would not have picked Lincecum, Posey, or even Bumgarner. <br /><br />And I'm not justifying the trade this way, as some have commented before, but it certainly was an unforeseen benefit. That is, let it go, it worked out for us in the end. obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7389427040394111033.post-71860682077694333782012-12-12T11:20:17.795-08:002012-12-12T11:20:17.795-08:00Followup to my thought on pitching building on its...Followup to my thought on pitching building on itself in the last part of my first comment.<br /><br />What I mean is best explained by this example. If you have a good firstbaseman then find a better firstbaseman, you have to trade the good firstbaseman or move him to a defensive position that he's probably not good at. <br /><br />If you have an ace pitcher (say, like Cain :^), then find a better ace pitcher (say, like Lincecum :^), you can keep both of them in the rotation and push out the 5th starter. And if your wannabe ace pitchers fail (like the A's and Met's Four Aces of the early 90's), they can be good relievers. <br /><br />In those Four Aces cases, Isringhausen was the only one to be a great closer, but Karsay was a good reliever. Another example is Wood, who has been a good closer as well, after flaming out as a starter. And, of course, the Big Bang of that trend, Dennis Eckersley. I would also mention our own Todd Worrell, he wanted badly to be a starter, but said that he didn't become a good reliever until he accepted that he was a reliever. Salomon Torres is another Giants example.<br /><br />Thus, the pitching staff can get good over time faster than position players, given how players develop so randomly and so unlikely. There is less odds of bad luck in needing to trade away someone you found to be good, plus even when you have bad luck and your starter fails, he could still become a good reliever or closer (oh, shame on me for not noting Joe Nathan above). <br /><br />Put another way: Finding a better pitcher just pushes out the worse pitcher on your staff, generally. Finding a better position player could push out your first, now second, best hitter. obsessivegiantscompulsivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362706004246875823noreply@blogger.com